"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Karliboy · Jul 31, 2020

cull cow came in at £1.37 pkg total £890 i only paid £700 for her back in 2012 so not a bad day all round.
I am wishing id taken the other cull cow in too now with the twin bull calves as no doubt come winter the bottom will have fallen out of market knowing my luck.

Kiwi Pete · Jul 31, 2020

texas pete said:
Definitely use an antibiotic spray if you have scald. I wouldn't trim though...I'd almost throw the damn things away, you nearly always do more harm than good.

It's good to hear that from someone else, my mate is forever trimming feet, but I'm yet to be convinced that it's helpful. In fact unless you're recording or keeping a very small flock it's probably counterproductive, the odd replacement will beat you and likely perpetuate any genetic problems?

ShooTa · Jul 31, 2020

sheep feet is something that ive been dealing with aswell - scald from the longer stalks - so blue spray and the occasional jag if its bad enough - if mild ill use 10% iodine. i trim pretty hard IF it warants it - i tried the no-trim and -min trim but for ewes ill do a proper job - lambs on the other hand is dependant on their end use...
having a few pallets so as they can get off the wet grass is something that ive not tried yet but that has been suggested. same with liming - we do it in the winter but ive not really done much in the growing season up till now. i have noticed - and im not sure why but that theres more hoof connection to the sidewall issues coming through, might be from breeding though..im watching that.
i want to start footbathing but its just not at the top of my list yet, a race sadly is higher up the list (as then i can put the bath in it.

Kiwi Pete · Jul 31, 2020

Is there any correlation between pale hoofs and hoof problems?

My mate (the mate with the Dorper stud) told me to keep an eye for any crossbreds without "a good dark hoof, darker the better" and send them down the road. In my casual observations (I'm a cattle guy" that would have been fair comment and it was def. the case with dairy cows

Guleesh · Jul 31, 2020

Not sure about hoof colour having anything to do with it, the worst flocks I know for footrot are blackface which generally have black hooves, From my observations footrot seems to be perpetuated by some tup breeders round these parts, usually the huge weight of a tup is the excuse given for his rotten feet, but predictably many of his progeny quickly develop problems too- badly shaped feet with soft hoof that grows too fast.

Lambs in the long wet grass continues to cause scald for us and we've found a quick run through some formalin sorts it out, we always make sure they stand for an hour on clean concrete afterwards, I've seen footbathing where lambs stand in mud afterwards and it definitely makes a difference. It's worth doing as it does set growing lambs back but tbh I'm pretty sure 99 out of 100 would get over it without intervention, also worth noting how an old ewe with quite advanced footrot can often appear to be pain free and running normally but a lamb with a small area of irritated skin between its toes drags itself round on three legs, they obviously have a much lower pain threshold.

exmoor dave · Jul 31, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
Is there any correlation between pale hoofs and hoof problems?

My mate (the mate with the Dorper stud) told me to keep an eye for any crossbreds without "a good dark hoof, darker the better" and send them down the road. In my casual observations (I'm a cattle guy" that would have been fair comment and it was def. the case with dairy cows

I've got absolutely no evidence to back this up whatsoever..... but.... I like breeding tups to have black (or near as at least) hoofs and no pink skin around nose eyes etc etc.

My hunch is that those pink skined animals are softer and the whiter hoofs more prone to foot rot.
The older Suffolk girls here, practically don't give any foot rot problems, very black hooves and rarely over grown.
On the other hand my exlanas, where I've only enforced the black hooves/ no pink skin rule on bought tups the last couple years, hsve noticeably poorer feet than the suffolks and exmoor mules.

Everything seems about the same for scald though, just some breeds seem to get no worse than scald, others it progresses to hoof separation

JD-Kid · Jul 31, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
Is there any correlation between pale hoofs and hoof problems?

My mate (the mate with the Dorper stud) told me to keep an eye for any crossbreds without "a good dark hoof, darker the better" and send them down the road. In my casual observations (I'm a cattle guy" that would have been fair comment and it was def. the case with dairy cows

none what so ever know sheep with white or marked hoofs and are bomb proof to foot probs and black hoof sheep that are always in the foot bath

Poorbuthappy · Jul 31, 2020

exmoor dave said:
I've got absolutely no evidence to back this up whatsoever..... but.... I like breeding tups to have black (or near as at least) hoofs and no pink skin around nose eyes etc etc.

My hunch is that those pink skined animals are softer and the whiter hoofs more prone to foot rot.
The older Suffolk girls here, practically don't give any foot rot problems, very black hooves and rarely over grown.
On the other hand my exlanas, where I've only enforced the black hooves/ no pink skin rule on bought tups the last couple years, hsve noticeably poorer feet than the suffolks and exmoor mules.

Everything seems about the same for scald though, just some breeds seem to get no worse than scald, others it progresses to hoof separation

Ooh, don't let Tim hear you say that

Pete, the white feet of the likes of Dorset and Berrichon are generally thought of as soft/ poor over here. But like anything, I guess it'll depend if the breeders have selected on feet issues.

Henarar · Jul 31, 2020

Karliboy said:
cull cow came in at £1.37 pkg total £890 i only paid £700 for her back in 2012 so not a bad day all round.
I am wishing id taken the other cull cow in too now with the twin bull calves as no doubt come winter the bottom will have fallen out of market knowing my luck.

I just had a nice surprise had a cull cow 10 year old come back £1329.80 before deductions and that's non FA

Karliboy · Jul 31, 2020

Henarar said:
I just had a nice surprise had a cull cow 10 year old come back £1329.80 before deductions and that's non FA

She must have been a big old girl ?

Henarar · Jul 31, 2020

Karliboy said:
She must have been a big old girl ?

466kg dead, 770kg live last time she was weighed but had probably gained a bit so say around 800

holwellcourtfarm · Jul 31, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
Just got our books back from the accountant's. Makes for interesting reading

Tease!

som farmer · Jul 31, 2020

Henarar said:
466kg dead, 770kg live last time she was weighed but had probably gained a bit so say around 800

apparently cull cows are at an all time high ! Testing 10 august, got a few young poor milkers about, they will go through tested ring, if, if, if we pass ! Some old codgers as well.

bendigeidfran · Jul 31, 2020

In my opinion foot trouble in sheep is a combination of breeding and management,
On the farm with my A flock i have'nt touched a foot for 3 years because i brought every lame ewe home for about six years previous.
At home we do have a few lame ones, we always keep lame ones seprate and cull any that dont get better. We dont see long grass any worse for feet, moved every 3 to 4 days.
Scald in lambs used to be a problem and had to footbath every time they were in, changed from texel to Lleyn no scald.
Lot less work with the sheep now than ten years ago.

exmoor dave · Jul 31, 2020

Poorbuthappy said:
Ooh, don't let Tim hear you say that

Pete, the white feet of the likes of Dorset and Berrichon are generally thought of as soft/ poor over here. But like anything, I guess it'll depend if the breeders have selected on feet issues.

To be fair, the exmoor mules and their Suffolk x daughters do have excellent feet.
The exlanas are generally fine, they do seem to suffer abit if housed.... which is abit against the exlana ethos anyway

exmoor dave · Jul 31, 2020

JD-Kid said:
none what so ever know sheep with white or marked hoofs and are bomb proof to foot probs and black hoof sheep that are always in the foot bath

I've just remembered how I spent my 17th birthday..... trimming swaledale ewes feet for a day, massively overgrown, maggots

They had black feet

Woolless · Jul 31, 2020

exmoor dave said:
I've just remembered how I spent my 17th birthday..... trimming swaledale ewes feet for a day, massively overgrown, maggots

They had black feet

Well, at least it prevented you from sneaking off to the pub! Sheep can be a bit of work just with the routine stuff, never mind adding the 'voluntary' tasks! Get them cawed oot, or at the very least tup them with a terminal sire and make your life easier down the road.

Rob Garrett · Jul 31, 2020

bendigeidfran said:
In my opinion foot trouble in sheep is a combination of breeding and management,
On the farm with my A flock i have'nt touched a foot for 3 years because i brought every lame ewe home for about six years previous.
At home we do have a few lame ones, we always keep lame ones seprate and cull any that dont get better. We dont see long grass any worse for feet, moved every 3 to 4 days.
Scald in lambs used to be a problem and had to footbath every time they were in, changed from texel to Lleyn no scald.
Lot less work with the sheep now than ten years ago.

Agree with that, a lots in the breeding. Each case of footrot treated gets a spot of paint at the top of offending leg, change paint colour next time gathered, anything with two colours is culled. Also anything that gets fly strike.

Samcowman · Jul 31, 2020

som farmer said:
apparently cull cows are at an all time high ! Testing 10 august, got a few young poor milkers about, they will go through tested ring, if, if, if we pass ! Some old codgers as well.

Definitely. Now is the time to get them away. Sent 7 this week. 2 lost calves at grass so were split out at Tb test. The others had calves on them about 4 months old were in the cull group to go in the autumn at weaning anyway and the cows were good condition so cashed them in. Only 1 of the 7 was under 10 and she was a hippo without enough milk.

texas pete · Jul 31, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
It's good to hear that from someone else, my mate is forever trimming feet, but I'm yet to be convinced that it's helpful. In fact unless you're recording or keeping a very small flock it's probably counterproductive, the odd replacement will beat you and likely perpetuate any genetic problems?

I remember when we ran around 200 ewes 25 odd years ago running the whole flock annually through the turnover crate...and trimming all four feet. A two man job for speed. It can feel awful good to be busy.

"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

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