Fitbits / health trackers

ollie989898 · Jul 7, 2020

Clive said:
what possible use do you think that data has to them ?

When it come to data people really do think they are more important then they actually are

Clive, if such data had no use to them, why would they bother collecting any of it?

The vast majority of data collected by all the devices we use today is very very valuable. Why do you think they are selling carp like Alexa and internet-enabled doorbells, CCTV, alarms, baby monitors, fridges and the endless carp they do today??

Same reason you lot are all plugged into green light grower, internet enabled combines and the rest.

Clive · Jul 7, 2020

ollie989898 said:
Clive, if such data had no use to them, why would they bother collecting any of it?

The vast majority of data collected by all the devices we use today is very very valuable. Why do you think they are selling carp like Alexa and internet-enabled doorbells, CCTV, alarms, baby monitors, fridges and the endless carp they do today??

Same reason you lot are all plugged into green light grower, internet enabled combines and the rest.

what would scare you about someone knowing how long you sleep or sit down for ?

what do you think someone is going to be able to do with such data that maybe in any way detrimental to you ?

most data collected about people is believe it or not advantageous to them - when it comes to advertising would you rather see ads for relevant products you might actually want but not yet be aware of ? or random ads for items with no relevance to you whatsoever for example ?

Maybe in the future health data in particularly maybe able to warn you of illness before it happens ? ............. it could even save you life as these devices become able to monitor and spot trends re heart rate and blood pressure, monitor blood sugar and other key health metrics, combine that with data about yours exercise levels and other habits. If Ttack and trace had been in place long before C19 hit I'm sure many lives would have been saved ...... this stuff is here to help us, data truly is technology for the better as long as you are not an ISIS terrorist or Mi6 agent !

It does not exist as some sort of communist / 1984 programme to control people that's for sure !

If I told you there was a device that would tell you instantly if you had cancer, ages before any symptoms showed are you telling me you wouldn't wear that ?

ollie989898 · Jul 7, 2020

Clive said:
what would scare you about someone knowing how long you sleep or sit down for ?

what do you think someone is going to be able to do with such data that maybe in any way detrimental to you ?

most data collected about people is believe it or not advantageous to them - when it comes to advertising would you rather see ads for relevant products you might actually want but not yet be aware of ? or random ads for items with no relevance to you whatsoever for example ?

Maybe in the future health data in particularly maybe able to warn you of illness before it happens ? ............. it could even save you life as these devices become able to monitor and spot trends re heart rate and blood pressure, monitor blood sugar and other key health metrics, combine that with data about yours exercise levels and other habits. If Ttack and trace had been in place long before C19 hit I'm sure many lives would have been saved ...... this stuff is here to help us, data truly is technology for the better as long as you are not an ISIS terrorist or Mi6 agent !

It does not exist as some sort of communist / 1984 programme to control people that's for sure !

I'm not scared- I don't use these carp things, I already contribute enough to the global landfills with concurrent soil and water pollution as it is. This is the reason I don't buy the stuff, I don't need it. Big companies knowing your daily routine so they can sell you stuff more effectively, no thanks.

Regarding adverts and marketing I don't want adverts at all and I have a browser that stops all of this. I run several email accounts and the bulk of the marketing spiel and spam are ending up in a trash account that handles all that.

If there is a beneficial health angle to some of these models of devices that is great but the data should not be harvested for commercial advantage or handled by third parties.

Technology has wound it's way into our lives quite far enough in my view. Living in a blackspot for mobile reception has been a complete blessing as the fudging thing never rings now. Try it, it's great.

Clive · Jul 7, 2020

ollie989898 said:
I'm not scared- I don't use these carp things, I already contribute enough to the global landfills with concurrent soil and water pollution as it is. This is the reason I don't buy the stuff, I don't need it. Big companies knowing your daily routine so they can sell you stuff more effectively, no thanks.

Regarding adverts and marketing I don't want adverts at all and I have a browser that stops all of this. I run several email accounts and the bulk of the marketing spiel and spam are ending up in a trash account that handles all that.

If there is a beneficial health angle to some of these models of devices that is great but the data should not be harvested for commercial advantage or handled by third parties.

Technology has wound it's way into our lives quite far enough in my view. Living in a blackspot for mobile reception has been a complete blessing as the fudging thing never rings now. Try it, it's great.

If I told you there was a device that when worn would tell you instantly if you had cancer, ages before any symptoms showed are you telling me you wouldn't wear that ?

ollie989898 · Jul 7, 2020

Clive said:
If I told you there was a device that when worn would tell you instantly if you had cancer, ages before any symptoms showed are you telling me you wouldn't wear that ?

Clive, by the time that device is available the technology will be available to cure it quite readily, of that I am certain. I can't even begin to imagine the kind of technological barriers involved for such a device.

For starters, potentially cancerous cells appear more regularly than many people realise, only their own immune system sorts them out as it has been doing for eons.

Clive · Jul 7, 2020

ollie989898 said:
Clive, by the time that device is available the technology will be available to cure it quite readily, of that I am certain. I can't even begin to imagine the kind of technological barriers involved for such a device.

For starters, potentially cancerous cells appear more regularly than many people realise, only their own immune system sorts them out as it has been doing for eons.

I believe dogs can already 'smell' cancer ? the tech may not be as far off as you think ?

Blood pressure and heart rate trend can already be monitored as can blood sugar with "wearables", so early warning of heart attacks (UK biggest killer) is already possible - the more data the more accurate the warnings / forecasts

ollie989898 · Jul 7, 2020

Clive said:
I believe dogs can already 'smell' cancer ? the tech may not be as far off as you think ?

Blood pressure and heart rate trend can already be monitored as can blood sugar with "wearables", so early warning of heart attacks (UK biggest killer) is already possible - the more data the more accurate the warnings / forecasts

I don't need a wearable for these things at present.

cider_eater · Jul 22, 2020

My belly is getting bigger, prob with cloths getting end of the day makes skin irritates.
what's the best way to lose this fat any more ideas ?

Suckndiesel · Aug 1, 2020

Clive said:
what would scare you about someone knowing how long you sleep or sit down for ?

what do you think someone is going to be able to do with such data that maybe in any way detrimental to you ?

most data collected about people is believe it or not advantageous to them - when it comes to advertising would you rather see ads for relevant products you might actually want but not yet be aware of ? or random ads for items with no relevance to you whatsoever for example ?

Maybe in the future health data in particularly maybe able to warn you of illness before it happens ? ............. it could even save you life as these devices become able to monitor and spot trends re heart rate and blood pressure, monitor blood sugar and other key health metrics, combine that with data about yours exercise levels and other habits. If Ttack and trace had been in place long before C19 hit I'm sure many lives would have been saved ...... this stuff is here to help us, data truly is technology for the better as long as you are not an ISIS terrorist or Mi6 agent !

It does not exist as some sort of communist / 1984 programme to control people that's for sure !

If I told you there was a device that would tell you instantly if you had cancer, ages before any symptoms showed are you telling me you wouldn't wear that ?

How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did

Target has perfected the technique of analyzing consumers' shopping habits to figure out who's pregnant. How can they send customers congratulatory coupons without freaking them out?

www.google.co.uk

Reminds me of this story from a while back.

ollie989898 · Aug 1, 2020

Suckndiesel said:
How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did

Target has perfected the technique of analyzing consumers' shopping habits to figure out who's pregnant. How can they send customers congratulatory coupons without freaking them out?

www.google.co.uk

Reminds me of this story from a while back.

Now tell me this is healthy or a useful thing for a highly capitalist society to have chasing after it?

holwellcourtfarm · Aug 1, 2020

Clive said:
I believe dogs can already 'smell' cancer ? the tech may not be as far off as you think ?

Blood pressure and heart rate trend can already be monitored as can blood sugar with "wearables", so early warning of heart attacks (UK biggest killer) is already possible - the more data the more accurate the warnings / forecasts

It had also been proved time and again that all these "wearables" are inaccurate, just in varying degrees. None of them are good enough to replace a proper medical device.

Agreed, they will show you a general trend but don't take them as gospel.

As for me, I'd rather just not be advertised at.

Personally I think it's time for legislation making ALL personal data the legal property of the subject and only legally accessible with the specific informed consent of that individual. That way any company wanting to use it must first fully declare what they want to gather, explain why, gain full consent and pay for it.

Clive · Aug 1, 2020

holwellcourtfarm said:
It had also been proved time and again that all these "wearables" are inaccurate, just in varying degrees. None of them are good enough to replace a proper medical device.

Agreed, they will show you a general trend but don't take them as gospel.

As for me, I'd rather just not be advertised at.

Personally I think it's time for legislation making ALL personal data the legal property of the subject and only legally accessible with the specific informed consent of that individual. That way any company wanting to use it must first fully declare what they want to gather, explain why, gain full consent and pay for it.

that legislation is already in place ! has been for sone time

Clive · Aug 1, 2020

ollie989898 said:
Now tell me this is healthy or a useful thing for a highly capitalist society to have chasing after it?

what do you think the danger / actual harm being done is ?

if you don’t want to pay for online services i’m afraid you have to accept adverts, just as you have whenever you watch but any free to view tv channel

we would not be here even debating this if if. wasn’t for the adverts i this site

so start paying for ALL tv and internet as you do the bbc or accept a that their will be a few ads along the way

honestly what’s the harm ? you have a choice, no one is forced to use free tv or internet and certainly no none is forced to buy anything if they do ? personally if i’m going to see adverts i would rather they were relevant to me

i believe in the future this data will make our life’s better, predicting health and issues wat before we can spot them ourselves helping us get earlier help / treatments and prolonging life

Clive · Aug 1, 2020

i’ve been reading a really interesting book about sleep recently

the amount of sleep we get is directly proportional to health and especially stiff like dementia etc

one of the things currently being tested to help people sleep better is use if sleep data to make environmental adjustments personal to the individual to make circadian rhythm match fir a better nights sleep

so small adjustments vis connected thermostat to room temps and also to light dinners, blinds, tv and other led contrasts was adding up to 30% more REM sleep in trials leading to much improved health and performance

that all stats with building algorithms that determine each individuals pattern which needs data

How can such tech and data use, that will undoubtedly lead to longer, more healthy lifves, be a bad thing ?

ollie989898 · Aug 1, 2020

Clive said:
what do you think the danger / actual harm being done is ?

if you don’t want to pay for online services i’m afraid you have to accept adverts, just as you have whenever you watch but any free to view tv channel

we would not be here even debating this if if. wasn’t for the adverts i this site

so start paying for ALL tv and internet as you do the bbc or accept a that their will be a few ads along the way

honestly what’s the harm ? you have a choice, no one is forced to use free tv or internet and certainly no none is forced to buy anything if they do ? personally if i’m going to see adverts i would rather they were relevant to me

i believe in the future this data will make our life’s better, predicting health and issues wat before we can spot them ourselves helping us get earlier help / treatments and prolonging life

I don't give a fudge whether actual harm or danger is being done; I don't think you get where I am coming from. Companies are like parasites that exist solely to drain money from consumers and citizens. That is all they do. They already have enough influence and power on people's lives and are very good at draining our cash already. I don't want my data being in their hands.

I don't watch adverts- I ignore them. I don't ever read advertising mail- used as fuel for our fire. I don't read advertising emails- I have dedicated email accounts for this and I simply never read them, all official or genuine correspondence is done using another account and I rarely if ever get unsolicited mail I won't read on that account.

What adverts on your site? I don't see or get any- browser takes care of these. If I resized the windows carefully I wouldn't even see the news feed thing on the right hand side of the page. Not that I read those anyway.

I don't watch free TV or listen to radio- it's all carp anyway. I'd sooner pay the annual subscription to Amazon Prime (which we use because our nappies are delivered by them and can't be bought may other places) and use that when I actually spend time genuinely watching TV (which is not much these days).

You may well be right that cloud data systems and devices can improve our lives and health, but there is no reason Google or similar need have their grubby mitts on it. That data is very very valuable and it simply does not belong to them. If Google want to mine and sell my health data they better ask for my permission first and tell me how much they are going to pay me annually for the privilege?

This is no different to farmers using Cloud based agronomy packages the the like- all diligently uploading their data to servers that do not belong to them and not realising that the suppliers of this software are now actually not really in the business of selling software but in mining and selling data.

Using your argument the NHS should be free to sell all the positively vast data collections is holds and allow third parties to mine it because it will do us all good? So US healthcare companies (who are chomping at the bit to get big in the UK market) can find out, very rapidly, how many men in a particular county have had a vasectomy and deploy targeted marketing on the back of it? And medical lawyers, everyone's ambulance chasing favourites can ask similar- 'how many women had Ob-gyn surgery performed by Doctor X between 1990 and 2001? Oh great, 3000 patients to chase and obtain compensation for on their behalf!'

How much will you be prepared to sacrifice to the altar of profit that you seem to worship so much?

holwellcourtfarm · Aug 1, 2020

Clive said:
that legislation is already in place ! has been for sone time

Not effective though. All online companies operate carefully crafted highly wordy legalese "consent" systems that few ever understand so mist just tick the box. That's NOT informed consent.

Those companies also never divulge how they monetise our data.

I will happily pay a subscription for access instead to those things I value.

I'm constantly teetering on the edge of closing my FB account for this very reason.

I fully accept the adverts on here pay for the service but, should you offer it, would subscribe instead.

Clive · Aug 1, 2020

ollie989898 said:
I don't give a fudge whether actual harm or danger is being done; I don't think you get where I am coming from. Companies are like parasites that exist solely to drain money from consumers and citizens. That is all they do. They already have enough influence and power on people's lives and are very good at draining our cash already. I don't want my data being in their hands.

I don't watch adverts- I ignore them. I don't ever read advertising mail- used as fuel for our fire. I don't read advertising emails- I have dedicated email accounts for this and I simply never read them, all official or genuine correspondence is done using another account and I rarely if ever get unsolicited mail I won't read on that account.

What adverts on your site? I don't see or get any- browser takes care of these. If I resized the windows carefully I wouldn't even see the news feed thing on the right hand side of the page. Not that I read those anyway.

I don't watch free TV or listen to radio- it's all carp anyway. I'd sooner pay the annual subscription to Amazon Prime (which we use because our nappies are delivered by them and can't be bought may other places) and use that when I actually spend time genuinely watching TV (which is not much these days).

You may well be right that cloud data systems and devices can improve our lives and health, but there is no reason Google or similar need have their grubby mitts on it. That data is very very valuable and it simply does not belong to them. If Google want to mine and sell my health data they better ask for my permission first and tell me how much they are going to pay me annually for the privilege?

This is no different to farmers using Cloud based agronomy packages the the like- all diligently uploading their data to servers that do not belong to them and not realising that the suppliers of this software are now actually not really in the business of selling software but in mining and selling data.

Using your argument the NHS should be free to sell all the positively vast data collections is holds and allow third parties to mine it because it will do us all good? So US healthcare companies (who are chomping at the bit to get big in the UK market) can find out, very rapidly, how many men in a particular county have had a vasectomy and deploy targeted marketing on the back of it? And medical lawyers, everyone's ambulance chasing favourites can ask similar- 'how many women had Ob-gyn surgery performed by Doctor X between 1990 and 2001? Oh great, 3000 patients to chase and obtain compensation for on their behalf!'

How much will you be prepared to sacrifice to the altar of profit that you seem to worship so much?

so you enjoy your free use of TFF ?

this website cost 250k last year to run

you do see adverts when you are here unless you are the one and only member who has opted to pay 99p per week to go as free ! Basically TFF and many other websites i’m sure you use a lot would not exist with out ad revenue because users do not want to pay and i’m not rich enough to provide it all for fun !

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?account/upgrades

are you going to subscribe or are you happy to be cruelly subjected to x 3 banner ads on every page you read here ?

Clive · Aug 1, 2020

holwellcourtfarm said:
Not effective though. All online companies operate carefully crafted highly wordy legalese "consent" systems that few ever understand so mist just tick the box. That's NOT informed consent.

Those companies also never divulge how they monetise our data.

I will happily pay a subscription for access instead to those things I value.

I'm constantly teetering on the edge of closing my FB account for this very reason.

I fully accept the adverts on here pay for the service but, should you offer it, would subscribe instead.

the law is effective - trouble is we all agree to T&C’s and give our consent because we want the free access to the service, entertainment or information we get given in return

ollie989898 · Aug 1, 2020

Clive said:
so you enjoy your free use of TFF ?

this website cost 250k last year to run

you do see adverts when you are here unless you are the one and only member who has opted to pay 99p per week to go as free ! Basically TFF and many other websites i’m sure you use a lot would not exist with out as revenue because users do not want to pay

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?account/upgrades

are you going to subscribe or are you happy to be cheeky subjected to c3 banner ads on every page you read here ?

I don't see any adverts. Seriously. The only thing I see is a box on the right from Agriland describing a story about fire fighters. If I have ever paid any money on or for a forum I don't recall doing so.

If it becomes a decision between paying a subscription or not using a service, that is up to users to decide on the value proposition I can't speak for everyone in that regard.

Clive · Aug 1, 2020

holwellcourtfarm said:
I will happily pay a subscription for access instead to those things I value.

we do offer exactly that and have done for 3 years now

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?account/upgrades

we have 1 single subscriber(not @ollie989898 ! ) that tells you all you need to know about people’s willingness to pay vs how bothered they really are about a few adverts !

Fitbits / health trackers

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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