"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

And without it the biggest part of Somerset would be under water
Why is everything that a cow could possibly do somehow bad all to once
There they have been happy getting on with life for millennia and now they can't put a foot right, can't get to old, can't get to big, can't knock a bit of soil in the river or have a good dump while cooling their feet.
Cow lives matter
Cow lives matter
Cow lives matter
Rar rar rar

And all this told to us by folk that never drive round in cars or fly in planes or live in houses built with concrete and heated with gas, I mean WTAF have they done wrong for the bloody environment

Right animal, right place, at the right time, for the right reason. All farms are different, but information is always valuable. Sometimes farmers get caught up in farming and don't think, until they hear something new. They might know a lot is wrong, but I'll suggest Donald Rumsfelds known unknown's and unknown unknowns are vitally important.

And lobster lives matter too, maybe they'd be quite happy in ZumerZet :D
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Ahh you mention the NBA's stupid proposal.
So old cattle are bad for the the environment as well.
Got to commiserate with a big old cow, poor old girl got nart going for her at all apparently
is it really stupid, if it opens up debate? your poor old cow, is actually more carbon friendly, you don't need to rear so many replacements, therefore more beef. The whole argument, is a buggers muddle, the easiest way for farmers, is to admit, we can never be right, that is, till the next calamity, affecting food delivery, then, we will be hero's.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
is it really stupid, if it opens up debate? your poor old cow, is actually more carbon friendly, you don't need to rear so many replacements, therefore more beef. The whole argument, is a buggers muddle, the easiest way for farmers, is to admit, we can never be right, that is, till the next calamity, affecting food delivery, then, we will be hero's.
the stupid part was letting government see it
The problem is its got so ingrained now that cattle are bad for the environment which is wrong its some ways of farming them are not so good
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
I am of to the field where our big, old, black cow just happens to be washing the soil of her feet in the river, I am going to ask her if the prejudiced held against her is getting her down.
She said she couldn't give a sh1t what they think let them fly off to Spain on another cheap mini break she is quite happy and may even burp the cows anthem just to p1ss all her detractors off
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
the stupid part was letting government see it
The problem is its got so ingrained now that cattle are bad for the environment which is wrong its some ways of farming them are not so good
agree, and disagree, the farting cow syndrome, is now so accepted, as to be unchangeable, alas. But, the contentious document, will, a, open lively debate, and, b, show guv, something is happening, by the industry, to combat, the supposed carbon production, both could be good, or, if it goes tits up, bad.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
Buffalo are quite sizeable
is erosion bad? without it we would have some very high mountains? are very high mountains good ?
should we all keep Dexter's then ? or sheep ? but I thought Pete said sheep didn't cause enough impact ?
I thought conventional wisdom was to breed small, remember the belt buckle angus ? would these create enough impact for Pete ?
so many questions to which someone else has all the answers
There's a big difference between the geological timescale and causes involved in eroding mountains and the sudden topsoil loss we can see under some farm management each time it rains or blows hard. Some farms seem content to see many tons per acre of their soil leave the farm in each rainfall event (or, even worse, don't even notice it).

As for cattle size it's a balancing act. You need a market for what you produce. Hereford cows used to be much smaller in the '70's. The supermarkets decided they were "too fatty" and "too small" driving us towards continental types. The leading Hereford breeders reacted by selecting for bigger cattle.

If you are selling direct or to a premium butcher then they will tell you what size cuts they want. I've never stood in Tesco's, Sainsbury's or Asda and heard customers comment on the size of beef cuts. It's the retailers that specify that to suit their shelf space designs, distribution system and business model despite their claims to "only sell what the customer wants".
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
as i have said before, mankind, cannot survive without farming, but you wouldn't realise that, from all the shite we get. There has to be a trade off point. Sprays, fert, are great tools for increasing yields, but at what expense ? Very often think, new strains of crops, are 'created', to ensure we use loads of spray/fert, we certainly faff about more now, with crops, than we ever used to. Think how many fungicides, we apply to grain crops, to what we used to use, spr barley, weedkiller, cheap, calaxin ? fungicide, fert, shut the gate. Yield, in itself, is very important, for profit, and to feed the worlds growing population, or what's left, after covid ! Comparing yields, of 20 yrs ago, and todays, not a lot of difference, but compare imputs, makes us look like idiots, because, what have we actually achieved ? by using the extra sprays fert etc. Plant breeders, should be concentrating, on disease resistance, or a more resilient plant. The first, although they claim they are more resistant, why do we need, so many spray applications, the second, they have, it's called GM, if you can't use it, they haven't ! For such an important part of life, we are treated, like we are destroying it, and people do not/ cannot, afford to pay a realistic price, for an essential part of life. I would venture to claim, processed crap food, is a greater danger to life, than, fert, sprays or even GM.
You seem under the false impression that the inputs industry and corporate plant breeders see their role as being to help us. In reality, much like the laboratory meat startups, it's really about helping themselves and nothing else.

Roundup tolerant canola (as an example) wasn't about cutting farmers costs, that was just marketing. It was about controlling seed access and price.
 
There's a big difference between the geological timescale and causes involved in eroding mountains and the sudden topsoil loss we can see under some farm management each time it rains or blows hard. Some farms seem content to see many tons per acre of their soil leave the farm in each rainfall event (or, even worse, don't even notice it).

As for cattle size it's a balancing act. You need a market for what you produce. Hereford cows used to be much smaller in the '70's. The supermarkets decided they were "too fatty" and "too small" driving us towards continental types. The leading Hereford breeders reacted by selecting for bigger cattle.

If you are selling direct or to a premium butcher then they will tell you what size cuts they want. I've never stood in Tesco's, Sainsbury's or Asda and heard customers comment on the size of beef cuts. It's the retailers that specify that to suit their shelf space designs, distribution system and business model despite their claims to "only sell what the customer wants".
Precisely, co-ercing many in to producing cattle that they lose money on. They suit the processors and supermarkets but don't suit the farm. It's crazy crofters in the Western Isles with big continental x cows. 100 years ago they would have kept Highlanders, a breed adapted to their environment over hundreds of years.
 
Precisely, co-ercing many in to producing cattle that they lose money on. They suit the processors and supermarkets but don't suit the farm. It's crazy crofters in the Western Isles with big continental x cows. 100 years ago they would have kept Highlanders, a breed adapted to their environment over hundreds of years.

You'll see lads here with big charollais, horsing bagged feed and everything else into them all Winter. Compared to lads running Galloways or Blue Greys, putting SFA into them. Of course the Char boys laugh at the price the galloway bull calf makes, but it's a short conversation when he's asked how much his calf cost him plus how he plans to put his field right?
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
You seem under the false impression that the inputs industry and corporate plant breeders see their role as being to help us. In reality, much like the laboratory meat startups, it's really about helping themselves and nothing else.

Roundup tolerant canola (as an example) wasn't about cutting farmers costs, that was just marketing. It was about controlling seed access and price.
no, if help was their aim, we would be growing 5 ton wheat/ac, with half the imputs. GM, it's true, has a monetary aspect, it also increases, the chances, of a good crop, in foreign parts, that struggle, it's the greed side, that's wrong, how you change that, is pretty nigh impossible.
The only measure in farming, here, is can you make enough, to have a sensible life, some parts of the world, it's can you survive.
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
You need the right size cow for your land but you also need a market for your calf and you need to weigh one against the other
no good turning up at market with lots of little weaned calves that folk just laugh at a offer 50 quid for which is what more or less happens with Dexter's or sending them off on the dead and getting penalised the hell out of them cos they are under weight
So yes you don't want to big a cow but there is a trade off point all according to your land your system and your market and no one size will fit all

this.

it's Silly seieng in regen. ag. groups péople say you néed this or that type of cow. You have to know your market. Why do péople not understand basic business. cost's are not thé only considération.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
You'll see lads here with big charollais, horsing bagged feed and everything else into them all Winter. Compared to lads running Galloways or Blue Greys, putting SFA into them. Of course the Char boys laugh at the price the galloway bull calf makes, but it's a short conversation when he's asked how much his calf cost him plus how he plans to put his field right?
But that Charley will have its place somewhere, just not there
I think something thats wanted and saleable without the inputs as much as pos and build on that
Better not more
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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