"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Kiwi Pete · Nov 20, 2020

som farmer said:
we only buy high tensile now, ordinary barbed, gets slack to easily. We have 1 fence, put up with decent posts, and ht stockfence, and barb, summer 96, still tight, post's ok. Then the posts went shite, everything after that, has been patched/reposted, more than once, it's the stakes that don't last. Always thought, elec b wire barbaric, but have wished a few people caught up in it !

I've worked on farms in the past that had internal fences that were all single barb electric/hardwood stakes - fecking hard to see in the dark while rounding up cows on an Ag200 but otherwise really good.
The herd definitely didn't lean on the fence like you see them doing to normal wire fences but I can see why you'd use HT, it was amazing to see them all sag in the heat and pull up on a cold morning.

Paddocks were about 40m wide by 1000m long and I guess economy was a major consideration, imagine if we had people with "that mentality" in agriculture

exmoor dave · Nov 20, 2020

hendrebc said:
I only have battery energisers I connect the earth to the permanent boundary fence. Seems to work well.
I don't often have breakouts with the ewes now but when I do the one on the wrong side is skittish and wants to get back with their friends.
Cows the same the odd time I've had one the wrong side of the fence but usually with them it's all or nothing in fairness to them they have only seen electric fence the first time this past 3 weeks and a bit of training in the shed for a week before that. And when they have all broken out (twice) it's been one bulling or I'm pretty sure it was the gamekeeper driving pheasants home and sent the cows over at the same time can't really blame them for that.

+1 for using stock net as a earth, does seem to work well.

Nice long run of Clipex fence obviously the ultimate earth

som farmer · Nov 20, 2020

big sheep man near us, all ht wire, so many earth, the rest live, worked well, but they are renewing with stock fence. His are the keep sheep, everybody wants, they don't get out, seen every day, and are moved on time, 800 ewes, no dogs, all moved by 'pet' lambs, they have pampered, and trained to come running, for their 'cake' every time they check them, really neat.

Bury the Trash · Nov 20, 2020

som farmer said:
big sheep man near us, all ht wire, so many earth, the rest live, worked well, but they are renewing with stock fence. His are the keep sheep, everybody wants, they don't get out, seen every day, and are moved on time, 800 ewes, no dogs, all moved by 'pet' lambs, they have pampered, and trained to come running, for their 'cake' every time they check them, really neat.

They cant get out with stock fence , just put it up and walk away no maintenance no breakout problem s when you get on with other things ... go out for the day , or on Sundays.

Dogs can be a lot of trouble..

I know someone not far away who lambed 1000 ewes and on other ground buys in and finishes up to 4k store lambs. Iirc ....No dogs .

Used to grow and Feed a lot of swedes as well hes favourite electric strip fence post was a wooden stake with a 50kg poly fert bag pulled over it bound around with baler cord..

Fake it ‘til you make it · Nov 20, 2020

[QUOTE="som farmer said:
big sheep man near us, all ht wire, so many earth, the rest live, worked well, but they are renewing with stock fence. His are the keep sheep, everybody wants, they don't get out, seen every day, and are moved on time, 800 ewes, no dogs, all moved by 'pet' lambs, they have pampered, and trained to come running, for their 'cake' every time they check them, really neat.

A bloke told me that abattoirs in Australia used to keep a tame sheep or two, that would lead their new mates out of the pens and up the race to the kill floor, for a bit of feed. Called them Judas sheep. Frowned upon now...

JohnGalway · Nov 20, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
It's only a shock if you're shocked by getting a shock. If you aren't surprised by the wire having a pulse then it isn't a shock at all, grab the bugger properly!

Starting to sound like my old man, uncle was terrified of the electric fence so I used to grab hold of it and grab his shoulder

There's truth in that, I found out when I saw an escape in progress but my fleeing mastermind got her horn looped in the polywire. I grabbed her back leg *shock*, *struggle* *shock* *struggle*... Tried the wool *shock* *struggle*.........

I'm still not going to grab it willingly

JohnGalway · Nov 20, 2020

som farmer said:
big sheep man near us, all ht wire, so many earth, the rest live, worked well, but they are renewing with stock fence. His are the keep sheep, everybody wants, they don't get out, seen every day, and are moved on time, 800 ewes, no dogs, all moved by 'pet' lambs, they have pampered, and trained to come running, for their 'cake' every time they check them, really neat.

Penned 130 or so ewes with no dog yesterday, then had another 20 that weren't quite as gullible/greedy I had to round up on foot. Never even said a word to the first lot, they just saw a bag and one shouted to the other and off we went.

Kiwi Pete · Nov 20, 2020

Fake it ‘til you make it said:
A bloke told me that abattoirs in Australia used to keep a tame sheep or two, that would lead their new mates out of the pens and up the race to the kill floor, for a bit of feed. Called them Judas sheep. Frowned upon now...

Aren't "people" precious?
Not even allowed dogs on site anymore because "they might scare the sheep"... like most lambs have never seen dogs before...

cue, people with plastic bags on sticks, to scare the sheep

I have Judas rams, big pain in the bum sometimes but also damned handy and don't eat much meat. more for us.

Kiwi Pete · Nov 21, 2020

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=2857194894570083&id=100008388004773

Fake it ‘til you make it · Nov 21, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
Aren't "people" precious?
Not even allowed dogs on site anymore because "they might scare the sheep"... like most lambs have never seen dogs before...

cue, people with plastic bags on sticks, to scare the sheep

I have Judas rams, big pain in the bum sometimes but also damned handy and don't eat much meat. more for us.

I saw people working their dogs in Australian abattoirs’ yards, which we might call the lairage in the UK. Highly trained, quiet, believe they were muzzled IIRC. It occurred to me then that being able to work your own dogs would have made the job not enjoyable and satisfying. Went back a couple of years later, dogs banned from the yards, and the staff have to shake this tambourine/ Morris dancing stick with bells on to drive the sheep along

Was super impressed by the drovers’ dogs, that travel around in a steel box under the livestock lorry, and are used to load and unload. They would run underneath/ over the backs of anything, up and down the decks of the lorries, loved their work.

Kiwi Pete · Nov 21, 2020

Fake it ‘til you make it said:
I saw people working their dogs in Australian abattoirs’ yards, which we might call the lairage in the UK. Highly trained, quiet, believe they were muzzled IIRC. It occurred to me then that being able to work your own dogs would have made the job not enjoyable and satisfying. Went back a couple of years later, dogs banned from the yards, and the staff have to shake this tambourine/ Morris dancing stick with bells on to drive the sheep along

Was super impressed by the drovers’ dogs, that travel around in a steel box under the livestock lorry, and are used to load and unload. They would run underneath/ over the backs of anything, up and down the decks of the lorries, loved their work.

Apparently the UK supermarket buyers made it a hard limit here, so the dogs went.
Has the effect of raising the stress levels of yard employees and the sheep, and making things more costly and less efficient, right up their alley really.

All for maybe 10% of the market, I mean to put that into perspective "antibiotic free" lamb is a similar quantity

Woolless · Nov 21, 2020

Fake it ‘til you make it said:
I saw people working their dogs in Australian abattoirs’ yards, which we might call the lairage in the UK. Highly trained, quiet, believe they were muzzled IIRC. It occurred to me then that being able to work your own dogs would have made the job not enjoyable and satisfying. Went back a couple of years later, dogs banned from the yards, and the staff have to shake this tambourine/ Morris dancing stick with bells on to drive the sheep along

Was super impressed by the drovers’ dogs, that travel around in a steel box under the livestock lorry, and are used to load and unload. They would run underneath/ over the backs of anything, up and down the decks of the lorries, loved their work.

My older bitch has made a guest appearance at work (slaughterhouse) a couple of times. Seven blokes couldn't get lambs out the paddock one morning, 'Spot!', they were heading up the conveyor in no time. A decker landed here one morning to load lambs, she was right up on the decks beside the driver. He was ready to put her in the cab! I know from experience that's not a good idea, she would have had his sandwiches in a flash

Woolless · Nov 21, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
Apparently the UK supermarket buyers made it a hard limit here, so the dogs went.
Has the effect of raising the stress levels of yard employees and the sheep, and making things more costly and less efficient, right up their alley really.

All for maybe 10% of the market, I mean to put that into perspective "antibiotic free" lamb is a similar quantity

Yes, I don't think Marks and Spencer would like the dogs. They also expect cattle in the lairage to be checked overnight, thereby disturbing them and probably resulting in them getting up and mulling about

Henarar · Nov 21, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
Apparently the UK supermarket buyers made it a hard limit here, so the dogs went.
Has the effect of raising the stress levels of yard employees and the sheep, and making things more costly and less efficient, right up their alley really.

All for maybe 10% of the market, I mean to put that into perspective "antibiotic free" lamb is a similar quantity

lucky bugger, we have to put up with the feck wits for a much higher %

Kiwi Pete · Nov 21, 2020

Woolless said:
Yes, I don't think Marks and Spencer would like the dogs. They also expect cattle in the lairage to be checked overnight, thereby disturbing them and probably resulting in them getting up and mulling about

Yep. I'm pretty sure that extra memos went out when M&S did their audits, one memorable (and maybe the last while I was in processing) the guy stood and watched me for nearly an hour.
I was doing the spinal cord cut (blue knife) as well as the vertebrae (white knife) and I could feel the eyes on me

it's a long hour with a twát waiting for a mistake, like not dipping the steel in the steriliser between brushing up the two knives.
Lots of little niggles, they didn't want smokers going downstairs for a butt at smoko in their whites in case of contamination, so the smokers all had to get changed into street clothes etc. And whites get hung in lockers and put back on, which is going to risk more contam than a possible speck of ash

Fine if you want to eat your pie with the smokers while on your way back from the canteen though

- no problem there! Just they seem hellbent on rules for rule's sake

Woolless · Nov 21, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
Yep. I'm pretty sure that extra memos went out when M&S did their audits, one memorable (and maybe the last while I was in processing) the guy stood and watched me for nearly an hour.
I was doing the spinal cord cut (blue knife) as well as the vertebrae (white knife) and I could feel the eyes on me
it's a long hour with a twát waiting for a mistake, like not dipping the steel in the steriliser between brushing up the two knives.
Lots of little niggles, they didn't want smokers going downstairs for a butt at smoko in their whites in case of contamination, so the smokers all had to get changed into street clothes etc. And whites get hung in lockers and put back on, which is going to risk more contam than a possible speck of ash

Fine if you want to eat your pie with the smokers while on your way back from the canteen though - no problem there! Just they seem hellbent on rules for rule's sake

Was that doing ewes, Pete? Taking the spinal cord out?

Kiwi Pete · Nov 21, 2020

Woolless said:
Was that doing ewes, Pete? Taking the spinal cord out?

Beef. I was in "the front room", either right beside the Halal guys or on the other side of the table, shackling.
All beef here is treated like it has F&M, rabies, and bTb

whether it is 6 months or 6 years at slaughter, so the spinal stuff is treated with a lot of care.
Pretty good facility though, where I worked, I got a good look about over the years - worked right through the lamb chain, casings, smallgoods, lambcuts and woolroom, and then thought I might have a go at the beef as well.
Only did a season in boning and a season in primary, preferred the beef. But it gave me a good grounding in how things come apart!

Woolless · Nov 21, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
Beef. I was in "the front room", either right beside the Halal guys or on the other side of the table, shackling.
All beef here is treated like it has F&M, rabies, and bTb whether it is 6 months or 6 years at slaughter, so the spinal stuff is treated with a lot of care.
Pretty good facility though, where I worked, I got a good look about over the years - worked right through the lamb chain, casings, smallgoods, lambcuts and woolroom, and then thought I might have a go at the beef as well.
Only did a season in boning and a season in primary, preferred the beef. But it gave me a good grounding in how things come apart!

Ah right. I had in my mind that your place was a sheep only plant.

Yes, some of these auditors can be a bit anally retentive! I am there to see that the law is complied with but I like to think that I use a bit of common sense along with it. Trouble is, common sense is sometimes not that popular with those further up the food chain...

Kiwi Pete · Nov 21, 2020

Woolless said:
Ah right. I had in my mind that your place was a sheep only plant.

Yes, some of these auditors can be a bit anally retentive! I am there to see that the law is complied with but I like to think that I use a bit of common sense along with it. Trouble is, common sense is sometimes not that popular with those further up the food chain...

I was ready to ask him if he was going to ask me out on a hot date after, but thought he may have not seen the funny side

Woolless · Nov 21, 2020

Kiwi Pete said:
I was ready to ask him if he was going to ask me out on a hot date after, but thought he may have not seen the funny side

From my experience, sense of humour is not their strong point.

"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

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