How well does the spun on wheat look? Are fert spreaders accurate enough?

JCfarmer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
warks
We bought an old 6m Vaderstad Cultus in a hurry mid October. Thought I'd messed up getting something with too heavy tines (wanted to use it normally as a cultivator too), but it actually mixed the soil and seed nicely. 300-330kg/ha though. Amazone fert spreader at 18m. Got 250ac we wouldn't have done otherwise and it looks actually not too bad. 12kph with the cultivator and no stopping to fill up / unblock coulters gave a good output. Trailed implement meant 8 psi in the tyres, which was much lighter treading than any other outfit we had. Filled a trailer of seed out the barn, tipped into telehandler bucket and into the fert spreader. I took the advice of many to start doing it early rather than as a fire engine job.

Decided not to put the pre-em on until it came up (and it was well up because of rain delays) which has left more black-grass than I'd like. I know a number of people who put the pre-em on straight away even with seed on the surface saying it was more important to get the black-grass. Having been burnt last year with wheat damage, I held off.

View attachment 932741

Did some barley as well which I think is OK. Both pictures taken 2 November.

View attachment 932742
Thats what you call a rough seedbed!
 

GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
Thats what you call a rough seedbed!
That's not a rough seedbed! This is a neighbour's wheat after maize, 'drilled' with a 4m claydon on a challenger. I didn't dig out that slot, that's the finished article, and no hope of rolling. However, heavy land, plus a ridiculously high seed rate off the heap, you can get away with absolute murder. A few months have passed and it looks a decent crop now!
IMG_20201015_084559116.jpg
 

JCfarmer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
warks
That's not a rough seedbed! This is a neighbour's wheat after maize, 'drilled' with a 4m claydon on a challenger. I didn't dig out that slot, that's the finished article, and no hope of rolling. However, heavy land, plus a ridiculously high seed rate off the heap, you can get away with absolute murder. A few months have passed and it looks a decent crop now!
View attachment 932830
I stand by what I said sir, Feldspar has the rougher seedbed. ;)
But it matters not the wheat is there.
Your neighbours is rough mind, should have been able to bury it better than that with the Claydon?
 
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GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
I stand by what I said sir, Feldspar has the rougher seedbed. ;)
But it matters not the wheat is there.
Your neighbours is rough mind, should have been able to bury is better than that with the Claydon?
Yeah, not exactly sure what happened, broadcast and harrow may have been better in this instance. Don't have experience with a claydon but it looked a bit like even with the deep tine up front the spring tine coulter with the wider wings couldn't stay in the ground and was skimming along on top in a lot of places.
As you say it matters not, plenty of plants established, enough moisture to survive any drought, a decent crop will be had
 
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JCfarmer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
warks
Yeah, not exactly sure what happened, broadcast and harrow may have been better in this instance. Don't have experience with a claydon but it looked a bit like even with the deep tine up front the spring tine coulter with the wider wings couldn't stay in the ground and was skimming along on top in a lot of places.
As you say it matters not, plenty of plants established, enough moisture to survive any drought, a decent crop will be had
Was there a lot of open trenches like that with wheat not buried?
 

GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
Was there a lot of open trenches like that with wheat not buried?
It was 'interesting' to look at. Seed depth varied between left on top and 4" deep. Where it was shallow and uncovered I could easily find the wide, smeared paths of the coulters, barely penetrating the surface (mostly on the headlands and behind the tracks). It was heavy ground and wet, drilling with a wheeled tractor wouldn't have been possible, so fair play to them for getting a crop established. I thought slugs would be a problem but apparently not, it's also free of weeds despite a delayed peri/post em, they don't seem to germinate well in saturated ground. Maul it in haul it in!
 

spikeislander

Member
Location
bedfordshire
I certainly think there is mileage in it , sorting out a set of tines at the moment , I’m leaning towards as wide as possible with a rear set of harrows, might enquire if I could get a double row?
Asking on another thread but 8-9m mounted lighter tractor on front or similar width trailed maybe bigger lump required but possibly do more of a job and less bounce
 

JCfarmer

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
warks
This was even rougher. This picture shows where we gave up because the volunteer oats were causing quite a few lumps. What we did is fine, although more black-grass than our mid September no-till wheat though. I think I'm glad I didn't do too much more.

View attachment 932848
I would have said that has a nice crumb to it?
You original photos especially the 2nd one look a worse seedbed? But as said it matters not because the wheat is there. (y)
 
I would have said that has a nice crumb to it?
You original photos especially the 2nd one look a worse seedbed? But as said it matters not because the wheat is there. (y)

That was before we had 2 weeks of solid rain. After that it all looked a bit unhappy. Overall because of the light traffic it has taken the weather relatively well. Headland especially look better than conventionally drilled stuff.
 

Andy26

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Location
Northants
We bought an old 6m Vaderstad Cultus in a hurry mid October. Thought I'd messed up getting something with too heavy tines (wanted to use it normally as a cultivator too), but it actually mixed the soil and seed nicely. 300-330kg/ha though. Amazone fert spreader at 18m. Got 250ac we wouldn't have done otherwise and it looks actually not too bad. 12kph with the cultivator and no stopping to fill up / unblock coulters gave a good output. Trailed implement meant 8 psi in the tyres, which was much lighter treading than any other outfit we had. Filled a trailer of seed out the barn, tipped into telehandler bucket and into the fert spreader. I took the advice of many to start doing it early rather than as a fire engine job.

Decided not to put the pre-em on until it came up (and it was well up because of rain delays) which has left more black-grass than I'd like. I know a number of people who put the pre-em on straight away even with seed on the surface saying it was more important to get the black-grass. Having been burnt last year with wheat damage, I held off.

View attachment 932741

Did some barley as well which I think is OK. Both pictures taken 2 November.

View attachment 932742
How's this looking now @Feldspar ?
 
How's this looking now @Feldspar ?

I'll get some photos. There is one field, the last we did, that is a bit of a disaster, but that's really unrelated to this method because this field has a very serious drainage problem that we have been trying to cure for years. So striking that out, I'd say we've got some crops that could well yield in the 8-10t range. I'd be disappointed if they did less than 7.5t. Also did some winter barley, which is looking noticeably slightly worse than drilled winter barley that went in at the same time. I have a slight question over hare damage that might have altered the picture a bit.

We then bought a very old NZ as well to get spring seedbeds with, and I think probably we should have just gone straight to that rather than the Cultus (although Cultus did take out the tractor wheelings well). The latter left the odd line where the last tine went through creating a trench that then was covered with the star wheels / batter board things. Overall this is not much worse than some gaps on wide spaced drills, and overall the plant population is more uniform due to the broadcasting.

Overall I'm glad I did it, and would do it again, but would probably use an NZ. Because the tractor could run with v low pressures, unlike some of these mounted drills, we have a good plant even round the headlands, whereas I've seen some fields done late with mounted drills with more obvious wheelings and headland compaction.
 

Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
I'll get some photos. There is one field, the last we did, that is a bit of a disaster, but that's really unrelated to this method because this field has a very serious drainage problem that we have been trying to cure for years. So striking that out, I'd say we've got some crops that could well yield in the 8-10t range. I'd be disappointed if they did less than 7.5t. Also did some winter barley, which is looking noticeably slightly worse than drilled winter barley that went in at the same time. I have a slight question over hare damage that might have altered the picture a bit.

We then bought a very old NZ as well to get spring seedbeds with, and I think probably we should have just gone straight to that rather than the Cultus (although Cultus did take out the tractor wheelings well). The latter left the odd line where the last tine went through creating a trench that then was covered with the star wheels / batter board things. Overall this is not much worse than some gaps on wide spaced drills, and overall the plant population is more uniform due to the broadcasting.

Overall I'm glad I did it, and would do it again, but would probably use an NZ. Because the tractor could run with v low pressures, unlike some of these mounted drills, we have a good plant even round the headlands, whereas I've seen some fields done late with mounted drills with more obvious wheelings and headland compaction.
more passes but lighter weight = less compaction ... or rather less soil damage .......than very few but heavy ........even on the same width of tire ??
(damp ground)
 

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