A Novice and his Aitchison Grassfarmer.

steveR · Jun 5, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
Not if the capital cost of what is a very basic implement is taken into account.

I suspect that if we all took into consideration the simple capital cost alone, a lot of kit would not/should not get bought.

However, my purchase was based on other areas, and while the cost was not minor, it has allowed a number of changes in how and what I do with my farming. The intention in the back of my mind was if it was a fail, I can soon sell it on again

Bury the Trash · Jun 5, 2021

steveR said:
I suspect that if we all took into consideration the simple capital cost alone, a lot of kit would not/should not get bought.

However, my purchase was based on other areas, and while the cost was not minor, it has allowed a number of changes in how and what I do with my farming. The intention in the back of my mind was if it was a fail, I can soon sell it on again

A good effective secondhand plough and cultivator can be got for way less than that drill secondhand or new.

and If on any of our ground that we farm, those cant / aren't appropriate to use, i consider no new seed introductions would also neither be appropriate/ and a waste of money so those particularly areas of ground are left alone in that way and just managed according to whats there, naturally.

steveR · Jun 5, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
A good effective secondhand plough and cultivator can be got for way less than that drill secondhand or new.

and If on any of our ground that we farm, those cant / aren't appropriate to use, i consider no new seed introductions would also neither be appropriate/ and a waste of money so those particularly areas of ground are left alone in that way and just managed according to whats there, naturally.

Well there you go...

Every farm is as different as every farmer is!

le bon paysan · Jun 5, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
A good effective secondhand plough and cultivator can be got for way less than that drill secondhand or new.

and If on any of our ground that we farm, those cant / aren't appropriate to use, i consider no new seed introductions would also neither be appropriate/ and a waste of money so those particularly areas of ground are left alone in that way and just managed according to whats there, naturally.

The Aitchison was 9000 euro delivered brand new. Then there's all the diesel saved.

Bury the Trash · Jun 5, 2021

le bon paysan said:
The Aitchison was 9000 euro delivered brand new. Then there's all the diesel saved.

They are Twice that price here now, for what I consider to be a very basic box drill.

and I doubt they would cope with usening seedstraight with nothing more done to it than straight from the combine, which allegedly some people use

.
Apparently that saves huge amounts of money

#broadcastingsthefuture

Bury the Trash · Jun 6, 2021

le bon paysan said:
The Aitchison was 9000 euro delivered brand new. Then there's all the diesel saved.

As a matter of interest .....What about the Erth subsidoiler, how much did that cost to buy and run.
and is your machinery individual business bought or as part of a machinery co op / ring?

le bon paysan · Jun 6, 2021

Erth 10 k but does a half the farm a year and a bit for neighbours, about 7 lts diesel / hc and metal 230€ a year 5.75€ hc.
Bought as an individual.
The drill was bought by a group of 5 farmers. The other farms plant mostly 'summer' crops like moha and sorghum. I plant maize, peas, cereals and grasses. Fuel use 5/6 lts/ hc..
This was all bought new, so like for like how much would a new plough and combi unit cost?
Fuel costs, how much per hc?

Bury the Trash · Jun 6, 2021

I wouldn't buy new so that's not the point for me.
Good Ploughs , cultivators , drills and spreaders

can be bought well secondhand , that is not the case with direct drills .
I don't and never have used a subsoiller here , I dont believe in them , at all.

For lower capital cost i guess I'll to have wait until there's a few more lightly used ones parked up in the nettles , would need to be air and with reliable metering and good even depth control, and work on all soil types, mind you .

Bury the Trash · Jun 6, 2021

le bon paysan said:
Erth 10 k but does a half the farm a year and a bit for neighbours, about 7 lts diesel / hc and metal 230€ a year 5.75€ hc.
Bought as an individual.
The drill was bought by a group of 5 farmers. The other farms plant mostly 'summer' crops like moha and sorghum. I plant maize, peas, cereals and grasses. Fuel use 5/6 lts/ hc..
This was all bought new, so like for like how much would a new plough and combi unit cost?
Fuel costs, how much per hc?

You forgot spraying with glyphosate costs.

steveR · Jun 6, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
I wouldn't buy new so that's not the point for me.
Good Ploughs , cultivators , drills and spreaders can be bought well secondhand , that is not the case with direct drills .
I don't and never have used a subsoiller here , I dont believe in them , at all.

I will never knock your decision to buy 2nd hand, but it's a good job someone down the line paid up for new kit...

On your 2nd point, you seem to grumble on about there being no cheap 2nd hand DD available to buy.... I wonder why that can be? Maybe they are all being used on farms, and NOT rusting away in the nettles!

I was at a sale 18 months ago, 6 month before I bought my drill, and was astonished at how well a VERY 2nd hand Aitchison GF sold. AIR, it was actually a Dealer that got it, with a lot of farmer interest in the bidding.

steveR · Jun 6, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
You forgot spraying with glyphosate costs.

I am still learning, but my experience is that a lightly disced stale seedbed is about as cheap as I can get for establishing a crop, and if the "stale seed bed" is a clean stubble, even better, as no movement of soil will be necessary at all !!

With DD into a stubble, I see very little weed competition compared to moving soil, and then having to wait for weeds to germinate to spray out. Then possibly having to control weeds again, IF that is even possible in a mixed species ley or mixture...

Bury the Trash · Jun 6, 2021

steveR said:
I am still learning, but my experience is that a lightly disced stale seedbed is about as cheap as I can get for establishing a crop, and if the "stale seed bed" is a clean stubble, even better, as no movementy will be necessary!!

With DD into a stubble, I see very little weed competition compared to moving soil, and then having to wait for weeds to germinate to spray out. Then possibly having to control weeds again, IF that is even possible in a mixed species ley or mixture...

Yes point taken and storing up the soil more than necessary will bring up i light and oxygen more than necessary dormant weed seeds but even an aggressive ' einbocking ' /grass harrowing will trigger off dock seed , doesn't have to be deep disturbance like that that brings up wild oats..

I like stale 'weedbeds' they are very effective and simple to do , as long as you don't over think the situation and do get yer timing right.

le bon paysan · Jun 6, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
Yes point taken and storing up the soil more than necessary will bring up i light and oxygen more than necessary dormant weed seeds but even an aggressive ' einbocking ' /grass harrowing will trigger off dock seed , doesn't have to be deep disturbance like that that brings up wild oats..

I like stale 'weedbeds' they are very effective and simple to do , as long as you don't over think the situation and do get yer timing right.

Didnt answer the question.

Bury the Trash · Jun 6, 2021

le bon paysan said:
Didnt answer the question.

I will use more deisal than that of course, that's if you're figures are totally honest.
as above, You conveniently forgot the cost of spraying plus the extra cost of uprating to a 110 5.8t tractor which it seems is needed for the erth subsoiller and which also I don't have or need as apartvfrom the extra capital cost it would, cause compaction , use too much deisal etc on other jobs .

le bon paysan · Jun 6, 2021

No need to tell porkies ,so cost of glypho is 13€ hc.
Didn't upgrade tractor was what I brought with me and is probably the most fuel efficient tractor I've owned. Erthing at 6/7 kph times 2.4 metres, less turning time will see me do just over as hc an hour. Engine speed will be approximately 1200/1250 rpm. I know a NH 100 will lift and pull the Erth so big tractors are not really needed, but a 4 pot motor will need a few more revs. Not all ground is the same, some heavy some light, some will eat metal and some will not.

steveR · Jun 6, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
Yes point taken and storing up the soil more than necessary will bring up i light and oxygen more than necessary dormant weed seeds but even an aggressive ' einbocking ' /grass harrowing will trigger off dock seed , doesn't have to be deep disturbance like that that brings up wild oats..

I like stale 'weedbeds' they are very effective and simple to do , as long as you don't over think the situation and do get yer timing right.

!

Oh yes, timings are critical.... Last year was a nightmare for stale seedbeds, and this time was not much better

le bon paysan · Jun 7, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
I will use more deisal than that of course, that's if you're figures are totally honest.
as above, You conveniently forgot the cost of spraying plus the extra cost of uprating to a 110 5.8t tractor which it seems is needed for the erth subsoiller and which also I don't have or need as apartvfrom the extra capital cost it would, cause compaction , use too much deisal etc on other jobs .

Still didnt answer....
This was all bought new, so like for like how much would a new plough and combi unit cost?

neilo · Jun 7, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
They are Twice that price here now, for what I consider to be a very basic box drill.

and I doubt they would cope with usening seedstraight with nothing more done to it than straight from the combine, which allegedly some people use .
Apparently that saves huge amounts of money

#broadcastingsthefuture

The metering system on the Aitchison copes with seed 'straight off the heap' far better than a Combidrill with pneumatic distribution. A little bit of chaff on those will easily block off individual outlets one by one, until 180 kg/ha of seed all ends up going down a couple of coulters, all unbeknown to the operator. Same seed, from the same heap, drilled just fine for redrilling with an Aitchison (was a few years ago now though).

That said, I wouldn't be averse to broadcasting and running over with a shortdisc. I've always wondered how much seed you end up throwing under the hedge though, particularly in small fields. I guess it would be less of a problem if the seed wasn't treated...

Bury the Trash · Jun 7, 2021

neilo said:
The metering system on the Aitchison copes with seed 'straight off the heap' far better than a Combidrill with pneumatic distribution. A little bit of chaff on those will easily block off individual outlets one by one, until 180 kg/ha of seed all ends up going down a couple of coulters, all unbeknown to the operator. Same seed, from the same heap, drilled just fine for redrilling with an Aitchison (was a few years ago now though).

That said, I wouldn't be averse to broadcasting and running over with a shortdisc. I've always wondered how much seed you end up throwing under the hedge though, particularly in small fields. I guess it would be less of a problem if the seed wasn't treated...

Our KRM will stop where you want to , just slow the pto to suit, which is excellent for fert as well of course.

Bury the Trash · Jun 7, 2021

le bon paysan said:
Still didnt answer....
This was all bought new, so like for like how much would a new plough and combi unit cost?

We don't use a combi, so its not relevant.

I've never needed to buy a new plough as there's always good secondhand available, last one was 3.5 k .
We're Maize and veg , and Fodder beet growers so that power harrows we have get used for that as well , as do the rolls , plus pushing down the odd stone in a grass field before cutting.
Last one I bought was 1500 iirc

rolls were about 2000 , long time ago now tho .

Just keep my eyes open for something clean and not used a lot , never know when something will come along.

A Novice and his Aitchison Grassfarmer.

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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