Access to home via farm track

Bongodog · Jun 9, 2021

Andy12345 said:
What sort of fool picks up sheep shite off a farm access track

One with far too much time on their hands

I get the distinct impression that there are some people who move to the Country who want and expect it to be polished and pristine. The whole premise is ridiculous of sheep poo damaging a farm track, the only way it would is if a tractor was hauling 10 tonne trailer loads of it on a daily basis

betweenthelines · Jun 9, 2021

PAAB said:
So, despite having said I wouldn't comment further, I feel the need to reply to the last post.

See attached photo - this is one nights shi*e. Would you not want to try and prevent this on your track and reach a solution that works for all parties? I guess not many of you have to drive through shi*te everytime you leave your home, whether that be on foot or by vehicle.
And dont bother replying with just move home or you know what you were getting into etc. We CAN and will live with it but would choose not too if that was possible in this situation

But you haven't replied to my post have you?

If your access was in a town, across, say a shared drive that you didn't own, would you expect the owner to let you fence it off? Or do you think a field isn't that important to the person that owns it?

And a whole night's dung that wouldn't fill a one gallon bucket-are you serious that that is degrading "your track" (really gave yourself away there, didn't you?) And if that dung is on the track you claim to have had road plannings put on, where have they all gone? You are not seeking a solution that "works for all parties" either are you? You are seeking a benefit just for yourself-the owner of the track seems quite happy with the current situation!

I think you are either a stranger to the truth, a egotist who thinks the world revolves around you, or a devious fraudster trying to increase the value of your property at the expense of others.

Fendt516profi · Jun 9, 2021

PAAB said:
So, despite having said I wouldn't comment further, I feel the need to reply to the last post.

See attached photo - this is one nights shi*e. Would you not want to try and prevent this on your track and reach a solution that works for all parties? I guess not many of you have to drive through shi*te everytime you leave your home, whether that be on foot or by vehicle.
And dont bother replying with just move home or you know what you were getting into etc. We CAN and will live with it but would choose not too if that was possible in this situation

Can we see a picture of the sheep that did that pile of sh!t must be one big animal

kiwi pom · Jun 9, 2021

betweenthelines said:
But you haven't replied to my post have you?

If your access was in a town, across, say a shared drive that you didn't own, would you expect the owner to let you fence it off? Or do you think a field isn't that important to the person that owns it?

And a whole night's dung that wouldn't fill a one gallon bucket-are you serious that that is degrading "your track" (really gave yourself away there, didn't you?) And if that dung is on the track you claim to have had road plannings put on, where have they all gone? You are not seeking a solution that "works for all parties" either are you? You are seeking a benefit just for yourself-the owner of the track seems quite happy with the current situation!

I think you are either a stranger to the truth, a egotist who thinks the world revolves around you, or a devious fraudster trying to increase the value of your property at the expense of others.

I don't understand why you are attacking the OP for asking a reasonable question. The part where the farmer has to maintain the track (according to the OP) doesn't seem to matter to anyone, its just turned into a yell at the "outsider" thread. The world doesn't revolve around you either, so calm down.

Hopefully the OP has now realised that the installation of the fence is a bigger deal than they first thought. If the farmer does have to maintain the track to an acceptable standard and it turns out it isn't, then they should take steps to ensure it's bought up to spec at the farmers expense.
@PAAB perhaps time to check out who is legally responsible for what and take it from there. There may be nothing you can do.

Fendt516profi · Jun 9, 2021

PAAB said:
Hello all, new to the site. Hoping someone must have experienced this issue before and offer some advice.
Access to our home is through a farm and along the farm's track. We are at the very end of the track. The track is only used by us, the farm (occasionally) and the shepherds who rent the adjacent fields. The issue we are having is preserving the condition of the track. Despite requesting assistance from the farm for a couple of years, none has been forthcoming with the track ever deteriorating, I took it upon myself to have 80-100 ton of tar planings placed and rolled at the cost of several thousand pounds. Of course, the issue is the sheep have free reign over the track. I have asked both verbally and written for the farm to consider a fence alongside the track (one side is already fenced) and I will fund the fence (only fair as it is us who want it). It will not take away any grazing or change land use Unfortunately, the farm will not offer their consent, there reasoning being that they do not want to change the layout of the farm. Every morning I shovel up a bucket load of faeces from the track before it is ruined, in an attempt to preserve it for as long as possible.
Do I have any other options here? Do the farm have a responsibility to keep livestock off their track if it is being used to access a private house. Can I legitimately erect a livestock fence or can they just remove it as they own the land. I don't think what I am asking is in anyway unreasonable and I'm not even asking for them to fund it.
Help?

kiwi pom said:
I don't understand why you are attacking the OP for asking a reasonable question. The part where the farmer has to maintain the track (according to the OP) doesn't seem to matter to anyone, its just turned into a yell at the "outsider" thread. The world doesn't revolve around you either, so calm down.

Hopefully the OP has now realised that the installation of the fence is a bigger deal than they first thought. If the farmer does have to maintain the track to an acceptable standard and it turns out it isn't, then they should take steps to ensure it's bought up to spec at the farmers expense.
@PAAB perhaps time to check out who is legally responsible for what and take it from there. There may be nothing you can do.

Why should the farmer be responsible for maintaining a track they only use occasionally when the house will be using it at least twice a day

Robt · Jun 9, 2021

PAAB said:
So, despite having said I wouldn't comment further, I feel the need to reply to the last post.

See attached photo - this is one nights shi*e. Would you not want to try and prevent this on your track and reach a solution that works for all parties? I guess not many of you have to drive through shi*te everytime you leave your home, whether that be on foot or by vehicle.
And dont bother replying with just move home or you know what you were getting into etc. We CAN and will live with it but would choose not too if that was possible in this situation

If that is your track after it’s been repaired. I hope you kept the receipt! That is awful and far from a road plane or tarmac chipping! That looks like cheap Builders waste!

Highland Mule · Jun 9, 2021

Fendt516profi said:
Why should the farmer be responsible for maintaining a track they only use occasionally when the house will be using it at least twice a day

Plenty deeds are written in an illogical manner, so who knows what this one says? The forestry commission have an obligation to maintain my boundaries to stock proof standards, yet they don’t own any cattle or sheep.

kiwi pom · Jun 9, 2021

Fendt516profi said:
Why should the farmer be responsible for maintaining a track they only use occasionally when the house will be using it at least twice a day

Don't know, the OP mentioned it, perhaps its in the title?
If the house is at the end of the track and the house owners have a right to access, it seems fair someone should be allowed to maintain it but if the farmer owns it the house owner may not be legally allowed to touch it?

Fendt516profi · Jun 9, 2021

Highland Mule said:
Plenty deeds are written in an illogical manner, so who knows what this one says? The forestry commission have an obligation to maintain my boundaries to stock proof standards, yet they don’t own any cattle or sheep.

So does ours but they don't bother

Highland Mule · Jun 9, 2021

Fendt516profi said:
So does ours but they don't bother

Maybe you should grow a pair and get them to do so, if it’s their obligation?

betweenthelines · Jun 9, 2021

kiwi pom said:
I don't understand why you are attacking the OP for asking a reasonable question. The part where the farmer has to maintain the track (according to the OP) doesn't seem to matter to anyone, its just turned into a yell at the "outsider" thread. The world doesn't revolve around you either, so calm down.

Hopefully the OP has now realised that the installation of the fence is a bigger deal than they first thought. If the farmer does have to maintain the track to an acceptable standard and it turns out it isn't, then they should take steps to ensure it's bought up to spec at the farmers expense.
@PAAB perhaps time to check out who is legally responsible for what and take it from there. There may be nothing you can do.

He's not asking a reasonable question though. He bought the property knowing what the access was like. I'm sure that if the owner had let it deteriorate in to measurable degree, he would have taken legal action.

As it is, he seems to be trying to get exclusive use of the access which will greatly increase the value of his property.

Perhaps if he started negotiations with the landowner on the basis suggested (50:50 split of the uplift in value) rather than bellyache about a few sheep "pellets" he might get somewhere.

He also needs to remember that just because he wants something, it doesn't mean he will get it-if the farmer doesn't want a fence or to sell, why should he?

Doing it for the kids · Jun 9, 2021

He also hasn’t said what his deeds say regarding what condition it should be in.

a bad track to him is probably A damn good one to most of us!

kiwi pom · Jun 9, 2021

betweenthelines said:
He's not asking a reasonable question though. He bought the property knowing what the access was like. I'm sure that if the owner had let it deteriorate in to measurable degree, he would have taken legal action.

As it is, he seems to be trying to get exclusive use of the access which will greatly increase the value of his property.

Perhaps if he started negotiations with the landowner on the basis suggested (50:50 split of the uplift in value) rather than bellyache about a few sheep "pellets" he might get somewhere.

He also needs to remember that just because he wants something, it doesn't mean he will get it-if the farmer doesn't want a fence or to sell, why should he?

I've read the opening post again and can't see anything other than common sense in it. It's unclear whether the OP has to open and shut just their own gate immediately around their property and a gate onto the road, but if I'd bought the place I'd have asked the farmer if I could fence off the drive too, if there were no fence either side I wouldn't bother though.

I guess that makes me unreasonable.

To be clear though, I wouldn't buy a property that could only be accessed by a track that someone else owned, way to much hassle, as this thread proves.

Banana Bar · Jun 10, 2021

If the farmer offered to sell you the track what would it be worth to you?

BB

Dry Rot · Jun 10, 2021

Highland Mule said:
Plenty deeds are written in an illogical manner, so who knows what this one says? The forestry commission have an obligation to maintain my boundaries to stock proof standards, yet they don’t own any cattle or sheep.

Nothing illogical in that.

Dry Rot · Jun 10, 2021

Access to my farm is similar to the OP's, without the sheep but fenced on both sides. If I want to do anything to the track, I write to the landowner asking permission and stating "if you have no objections to my proposals and agree to my carrying out the work, I would be obliged if you would kindly sign the copy letter of agreement and return it to me in the enclosed stamped and self addressed envelope". The return letter has a simple statement of the fact tacked onto the original. "I agree to the above....etc". Never had a problem.

Bob the beef · Jun 10, 2021

My lawyer recently told me that 75% of their work now is on access/ boundary/ maintenance issues. Since large amounts of outlying properties were sold off from many farms in the late 80/90’s there has been a never ending stream of problems. Most of the initial sales go through relatively easily. The hassles start when the initial purchaser sells the property on to someone like the OP, who are buying into the dream, and overlook the details of access/ boundaries etc just to achieve their goal.
Having been involved in a couple of disputes similar to the OP, if I was the farmer I would not entertain any change to the field/boundary/access. Once you have opened that door, it is very hard to shut it again.

puppet · Jun 10, 2021

Access problems which arise in buying a property are the responsibility of your lawyer. That is why you employ one to ensure it is fully understood rather than spend thousands fighting it later.
A lot of replies on here assume all sorts of things. The pile of muck you see has been collected and put on the soil, not the road planings. As far as the condition is concerned there are hundreds of examples of tracks which are supposed to be maintained jointly but the farmer is happy to bump along over the rocks and potholes.
I think some have been hard on the poster who was just asking what some farmers thought about the situation.
Next time someone comes on here asking how to fix their round baler will you ask why the hell they bought something if they didn't know how to fix it and serves them right if their hay is ruined. Let's just calm down a bit.

Ffermer Bach · Jun 10, 2021

kiwi pom said:
Don't know, the OP mentioned it, perhaps its in the title?
If the house is at the end of the track and the house owners have a right to access, it seems fair someone should be allowed to maintain it but if the farmer owns it the house owner may not be legally allowed to touch it?

I visited one employer years ago, who lived in cottage out in the middle of nowhere, he had access to his cottage through a farm, however (and I don't know what had gone on in the past) he was only allowed access and had no permission to maintain or improve the track, so I had to be picked up in a range rover at the roadside. He did mention that relations were not wonderful with the farm owner! So if it is access only and not improve/repair that would have been priced into the property value.

Ffermer Bach · Jun 10, 2021

Dry Rot said:
Access to my farm is similar to the OP's, without the sheep but fenced on both sides. If I want to do anything to the track, I write to the landowner asking permission and stating "if you have no objections to my proposals and agree to my carrying out the work, I would be obliged if you would kindly sign the copy letter of agreement and return it to me in the enclosed stamped and self addressed envelope". The return letter has a simple statement of the fact tacked onto the original. "I agree to the above....etc". Never had a problem.

I remember talking to a solicitor who had been to court over an access, his client had access rights and wanted to improve the track, however the landowner would not allow him, the crux of the matter was the width of the access rights (which turned out to be too narrow to allow in practice to allow any improvements).

I remember visiting a house with access via two stone gate posts, I think these were 9' or maybe less! The owner of the land would not allow them to be widened, I was told the oil delivery company only had one lorry that could fit through the posts!

Access to home via farm track

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