Worsening blackgrass/ryegrass problem.

alomy75 · Jun 11, 2021

ajd132 said:
thanks, looks good, but i really just want to make it single rows of 25 cm, so the possibility to hoe is still there

How wide is the drill? You could add the extra coulter assemblies but if you’re wider than 6m it’s going to be cost prohibitive. Plus you would need to source a different mushroom. If it’s a 4 or 6m you could get an earlier Horsch unit. I really can’t understand why Horsch have done that on the newer drills…alternatively you could do the ‘twinter’ conversion (with spacers to achieve 250 spacing on each leg) but reduce the number of coulters. I wouldn’t want to attempt the twinter if you have big rocks/things that would make the coulters break back more than occasionally; that front tine has nowhere to go.

snarling bee · Jun 12, 2021

ajd132 said:
Good answer! Points taken.
by the way, the quad track has gone!

To be replaced with an 8RX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's wrong with tracks anyway.
So much Bshit re HP/acre, tracks v tyres, trailed v S/P. Its cost per tonne or profit per acre that matters.

snarling bee · Jun 12, 2021

Has anybody mentioned leaving leaving the BG seed on the surface undisturbed? Underrated IMO.
Has anybody mentioned continuous wheat as the best rotation for BG control (and profitability). Bit non PC I know but it works for me.

ajd132 · Jun 12, 2021

snarling bee said:
Has anybody mentioned leaving leaving the BG seed on the surface undisturbed? Underrated IMO.
Has anybody mentioned continuous wheat as the best rotation for BG control (and profitability). Bit non PC I know but it works for me.

Agree with both!

ajd132 · Jun 12, 2021

snarling bee said:
To be replaced with an 8RX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's wrong with tracks anyway.
So much Bshit re HP/acre, tracks v tyres, trailed v S/P. Its cost per tonne or profit per acre that matters.

Nothing wrong with tracks. I have a 12m drill it pulls and a twin leg mole drainer.
drainage on this land is far more important than anything else to make no till work and not having the ability to cover big acres of drainage every year would be a disaster.

snarling bee · Jun 12, 2021

ajd132 said:
Nothing wrong with tracks. I have a 12m drill it pulls and a twin leg mole drainer.
drainage on this land is far more important than anything else to make no till work and not having the ability to cover big acres of drainage every year would be a disaster.

Cant beat 4 tracks on a twin leg moler. Twin tracks or wheels are a non starter IME. You can't lift a mole drainer through a tough bit to get on, need to be boss of it.

ajd132 · Jun 12, 2021

snarling bee said:
Cant beat 4 tracks on a twin leg moler. Twin tracks or wheels are a non starter IME. You can't lift a mole drainer through a tough bit to get on, need to be boss of it.

Yeh don’t quite a lot this spring with the RX on some quite hilly land and it is fine on it. I tried a similar sized wheeled tractor and it couldn’t pull it.
Pleased with it, nothing wrong with quads though I was just worried about running it too far out of warranty with quite a big jump up in area recently.

Badshot · Jun 12, 2021

snarling bee said:
Has anybody mentioned leaving leaving the BG seed on the surface undisturbed? Underrated IMO.
Has anybody mentioned continuous wheat as the best rotation for BG control (and profitability). Bit non PC I know but it works for me.

Very underrated leaving BG on the surface.
Predation, loss of viability due to exposure to sunlight, and being exactly where the residuals can actually work on it.

martian · Jun 12, 2021

Surprisingly here we've got a fair bit of bg in wheat after 4 year herbal ley

snarling bee · Jun 12, 2021

martian said:
Surprisingly here we've got a fair bit of bg in wheat after 4 year herbal ley

No surprise to me. We've had 3 years of spring barley, and the second 2 were clean from a BG point of view, then drill the next crop and bingo it starts waving at you this time of year.
Its a numbers game. If you have 100,000 seeds per m2 in year 1, loose 95% per year for 3 years, you are still left with 12 seeds m2.

alomy75 · Jun 12, 2021

snarling bee said:
No surprise to me. We've had 3 years of spring barley, and the second 2 were clean from a BG point of view, then drill the next crop and bingo it starts waving at you this time of year.
Its a numbers game. If you have 100,000 seeds per m2 in year 1, loose 95% per year for 3 years, you are still left with 12 seeds m2.

95% seed loss per year would be a god send-like you say, 4 years and you would have cracked it. I’ve never seen any work suggesting over 70%

alomy75 · Jun 12, 2021

Badshot said:
Very underrated leaving BG on the surface.
Predation, loss of viability due to exposure to sunlight, and being exactly where the residuals can actually work on it.

This would be an interesting trial; pre-ems we are led to believe work by root and shoot uptake, suggesting the shoot needs to grow through soil to pick up the residual. But does it? If it’s on the surface the shoot is straight into fresh air…BUT…would be super sensitive and the roots would hit the residual instantly

Badshot · Jun 12, 2021

alomy75 said:
This would be an interesting trial; pre-ems we are led to believe work by root and shoot uptake, suggesting the shoot needs to grow through soil to pick up the residual. But does it? If it’s on the surface the shoot is straight into fresh air…BUT…would be super sensitive and the roots would hit the residual instantly

I think it would need to be a multi year trial, as in the first few years you'll still have seed coming from depth even in DD.

martian · Jun 12, 2021

I didn't see any blackgrass in the herbal ley featured above, certainly none that made it to flowering. Drilled with a Weaving GD, so minimal disturbance. Previous ex herbal ley land which was a carpet of bg before ley (and some came through the ley too) is now clean as a whistle. We did roll some this spring, but blackgrass mostly autumn germinated I'd say...counted 127 tillers on one plant I pulled up, don't think that's since the spring

snarling bee · Jun 12, 2021

alomy75 said:
95% seed loss per year would be a god send-like you say, 4 years and you would have cracked it. I’ve never seen any work suggesting over 70%

They say about 70% annual loss if you plough them down. I just picked 95% to make a point.

Northern territory · Jun 12, 2021

A lot has been said about the wheat, OSR rotation which clearly hasn’t helped. But I think contractors, contract farming, straw movement etc has a lot to do with the way it has spread to every part.

ajd132 · Jun 12, 2021

snarling bee said:
They say about 70% annual loss if you plough them down. I just picked 95% to make a point.

We tried the rotational ploughing and it didn’t work, cost loads of money and ruined soil.

DrWazzock · Jun 12, 2021

Interestingly on areas here that flooded over winter it seems to have killed all of the blackgrass seed. We had some ploughing that filled to the furrow tops with water. Normally its bad for blackgrass but its almost clean now.

DrWazzock · Jun 12, 2021

Northern territory said:
A lot has been said about the wheat, OSR rotation which clearly hasn’t helped. But I think contractors, contract farming, straw movement etc has a lot to do with the way it has spread to every part.

That's how all of it arrived here. And brought in by ourselves on our combine after doing other peoples infested crops. Not worth the risk. Bedding down carrots with straw is also another big importer.
Get grass, roots and spring crops back in the rotation, rotational ploughing and biosecurity and its not too hard to beat. Good old mixed farming chopping and changing crops and techniques so it doesn't get a nice routine.

Tea Total · Jun 13, 2021

martian said:
I didn't see any blackgrass in the herbal ley featured above, certainly none that made it to flowering. Drilled with a Weaving GD, so minimal disturbance. Previous ex herbal ley land which was a carpet of bg before ley (and some came through the ley too) is now clean as a whistle. We did roll some this spring, but blackgrass mostly autumn germinated I'd say...counted 127 tillers on one plant I pulled up, don't think that's since the spring

Just a bit of input to you M. when I did DD work for your cousin Toby in the 80's he had a famous saying that I use to follow and lately ignored.
"Dont mind how late you get to do my Direct Drilling but make sure it is all finished by the 15th October" we had good success up there on that big field that faced Walkern.

Worsening blackgrass/ryegrass problem.

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