- Location
- Shropshire
Ah the old “I never take any wages” chestnut. Whilst rinsing as much back handed cash etc out of the farm as possible.
family succession and planning for the future? just wondering how many of you find this a positive experience and have any tips and advice for others?
- Thread starter WildHeather
- Start date
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
If your father isn't interested in succession planning its time to tell you and your brother stand united, tell him you are equally not interested in inheriting a liability rather than an asset that can one day provide well for his grandchildren. If your dad is not ready to start transferring responsibilities then your skills and experience will pay you better elsewhere... you cant live a life in hope that one day he might grow up, he might just grow old.... I genuinely believe it should be illegal to be an employee of your parents for more than 100 days a year by until at least the age of 25.
- Location
- Shropshire
I have some sympathy for your father. I assume he is around 60?
How long has he been boss?
If you 2 marry badly and he has handed it over he has basically his whole retirement living on £170 per week when he is currently sitting on several million.
I know we leave on a faster world now than previous generations, but I feel that a general discussion is probably enough for now and broach it again when marriage/kids/health happens over the next 5 years or so.
I would still ask the pertinent questions and ask people close to him to have a word however.
How long has he been boss?
If you 2 marry badly and he has handed it over he has basically his whole retirement living on £170 per week when he is currently sitting on several million.
I know we leave on a faster world now than previous generations, but I feel that a general discussion is probably enough for now and broach it again when marriage/kids/health happens over the next 5 years or so.
I would still ask the pertinent questions and ask people close to him to have a word however.
Far from it. £50 a week wages and that's it. Don't go out, havnt got any mates , and don't have a car
That's slave labour, nothing short.
I was fortunate that once I was full-time back at home I was paid like other staff, though not everything went on the timesheet.
This allowed me to buy a house and create my own credit rating.
Later I became a partner in the business (27yo) and joint tenant at 29.
We all took enough drawings to live on by standing order, and a profit share dictated by responsibility taken by each party - so initially, when I was just driving tractors really, was 10%, but grew over time to 50%
Eventually, my wife and I sold our house and put money into the business, so mum & dad could buy a bungalow, allowing us to move into the farmhouse.
We found that divided responsibility worked best for us - I had final say on the potato enterprise, father the transport (he ran 7 artics) - we discussed things and took the others views into account, but had final say and responsibility for 'our own enterprises' - it worked very well.
At 30 it's important to learn the skills needed to run the business, so that ultimately the business can continue after your dad is no longer around. You need to be known to key people like the landlord, bank manager and accountant, and understand how things work.
A this made things much easier when my dad passed away at a month short of 67 in 2018.
When did your dad take the reins? A too often control isn't easily relinquished if the previous generation hasn't got hold of the reins til 45 or 50, though I've known it skip a generation too.
Is there scope for you to start or develop an enterprise in your own right? Anything, stock, pick your own strawberries, hedgecutting, fencing?
Your father cannot seriously think you'll carry on grafting your nads off for ever on 50 quid a week - how will you ever provide for a family or anything in future?
Good luck - don't be afraid to walk away if there is no future, life is too short.
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
Partnerships don’t need to include the land and other high value assets...
Very true, ours doesn't - it certainly helped settle worries of those that own it that the junior partner hasn't automatically a share in it (particularly re land & property)
He was put into the partnership at a younger age than us, and he had my mum move in when he was 21. He hasn't really done any of the paperwork as my Mum's done it all. He had 4 kids by my age.
He threatened us that if we want to get married the farms getting sold
No but my Mum's pushing for that for us because being a partner in just the business isn't much security if my dad decides to sell up
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
Sounds like you and your brother should be walking or rather running away. Don’t look back and realise you have thrown your own lives away to provide your father with the slave labour he needs to keep the business going...
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
Well at least your mum is on the right page ie thinking about your future not just her own and 50% of the assets are your mothers.... If without plans, if your father is 60 little may change for you in the next 20-30 years! Bringing assets into the partnership can be done in stages..
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
Leave now, while you are young enough, and start up something of your own.
It'll never get better...
What's his reason behind that? Does he think you're not capable of running it without him?
Why does he not want the same opportunity for his kids that he had?
He sounds like he has serious control issues.
Does he really want to be the one to deliberately end the family dynasty and sell the family farm that he inherited? Has he no pride in setting his sons up to farm, and providing them with the same opportunities that his parents afforded him?
If he won't make you partners, then he needs to pay you properly as a member of staff.
I assume you live at home foc?
Time for some tough decisions.
Last edited:
- Location
- somerset
l have worked all my life, on a silly wage, because it would be 'yours one day', it should have been 'mine', 26 years ago, still isn't, still don't draw a sensible wage, knacked my body, and still in limbo, but knowing l will be the person that buys the farm, for the 3rd time, because of 'bad' wills. Looking back, l would, and should have walked, but it's an incredibly difficult thing to do, plus the fact that it's 'home'. We are all highly skilled people, just imagine being seriously appreciated, and draw a massive, to us, wage, with regular holiday's. Life flies past so quickly, we shouldn't waste it. A friend went under, farming, now a farm worker, who's pretty well left to get on with the work, as farmer has no worries about it not being done. His whole character has changed, he's happy.
- Location
- Shropshire
Ok, I have a lot less sympathy for your father now!
You guys need to have strong words about life and what you want out of it. He needs to be reminded of what you’ve done and what he has.
This isn’t a good situation to be in.
And ask him why you shouldn’t get married, sounds like he would be nowhere without your mum.
dinderleat
Member
- Location
- Wells
Sounds like abuse/controlling certainly not a nice situation.
dinderleat
Member
- Location
- Wells
If you’ve only been paid £50 a week the law would be on your side basically you would be owed the rest of your wage since you started work at home or means you have invested in the business which would only be a paper exercise but it does mean you should have some equity wether your farther likes or not
- Location
- somerset
and that could amount to a deposit on a house. 30 years old, hell of a lot of life ahead, women kids etc, you are in danger of missing them out, if you wait and wait for something to change.
And all the pension payments.
If you are not careful your mum, who he can not cut out any will have the sort out this mess. If I was her I would threaten divorce and force the issue, she can then do what she wants with her half, or force some sort of plan. I know its radical, but our family has been in this situation, and the only people that benefited were the solicitors. He would have to declare all his finances, and if your mum has done the paperwork she should know where bits are hidden.
I would buy a photo copier or a phone app, and copy all the books, obviously when they are not about, including the unofficial books. Basically every piece of paperwork that proves where he is spending money, and getting money from. You may never need them, but they are nice to have.
On a personal note, this is not how a parent should treat their children, this is financial abuse.
If you are not careful your mum, who he can not cut out any will have the sort out this mess. If I was her I would threaten divorce and force the issue, she can then do what she wants with her half, or force some sort of plan. I know its radical, but our family has been in this situation, and the only people that benefited were the solicitors. He would have to declare all his finances, and if your mum has done the paperwork she should know where bits are hidden.
I would buy a photo copier or a phone app, and copy all the books, obviously when they are not about, including the unofficial books. Basically every piece of paperwork that proves where he is spending money, and getting money from. You may never need them, but they are nice to have.
On a personal note, this is not how a parent should treat their children, this is financial abuse.
FWIW I'd advise against this.
To the OP - how is yours and your brothers relationship? Both with each other and your parents?
It strikes me that a family meeting, probably with the accountant in attendance would be a good starting point.