- Location
- somerset
when l was at war with mother and sisters, my accountant gave me a picture, chap pulling a cow along, on a halter, wife pulling the other way, on its tail, and a solicitor, each side, milking it. That picture was so so true.
family succession and planning for the future? just wondering how many of you find this a positive experience and have any tips and advice for others?
- Thread starter WildHeather
- Start date
That's why I think the mother is the key to the solution, she has the easiest clearest entitlement in law, and that could be used as a wedge, to force a solution, or not. Either way, you know where you stand.
Skintagain
Member
- Location
- Perched on the Pennines
Thick Farmer
Member
- Location
- West Wales
Chin the pansy.
Courier
Member
- Location
- M62 - M1 - M18 triangle
Mother may be the key, but there is no certainty she will outlive your father.
My wife died completely unexpectedly after a short illness ( PM said ovarian cancer) at the age of just 51.
Very sorry to hear that.
- Location
- Glen Clova, Angus, DD8 4RD
What a shock that must be.
You're right. My mum died first, the will then opened a hole can of worms, which she, thank god didn't have to cope with, but the way the will was written signalled my step fathers intentions, he was expected to die first, which caused upset, and then when he died the family farm, with all sorts of problems, was sold with much acrimony.
I have already made my will, my children have copies, and as we are tenants in common my children get my half, full stop. I would tell anyone who is concerned about their children inheritance, no matter how difficult the conversation, or how legal advice say, oh its complicated, or expensive, get it done.
I was seriously ill in 2019, and knowing that my children knew that they would not be forgotten or passed over in the future gave me some comfort.
Sorry to hear about your wife, my dad died at 55, unexpectedly at home in bed, but he had already written his will, and it made practical things easier. My children in their 30's are actively thinking who gets what, you have to plan for the worst and hope for the best
We're basically doing everything now, but he has control over us all. He thinks we will sell up when he drops down dead so he wants it all for himself now. We do live here "free of charge" but obviously pay our way in work. I have a sister that has lived here free of charge forever and shes 32 !!! She doesnt do anything to help.
Thick Farmer
Member
- Location
- West Wales
I have a similar sister. All I can say is be very, very careful.
dinderleat
Member
- Location
- Wells
You are going to need to sort this out one way or another. Your won’t be the only one in this situation so don’t feel like your alone. It’s all ready been said but speak to your brother and agree on a united front and be prepared to walk away there’s plenty of jobs out there.
dinderleat
Member
- Location
- Wells
how are you managing to still work with him?Today's update, he's getting a solicitor against me, my brother and motheryet he will have his tea put Infront of him later
Barely ever talk to him, mostly work apart anyway and we've put up with the same kind of bulls**t for so long were used to it.
- Location
- South West
Today's update, he's getting a solicitor against me, my brother and mother
WTF? Seriously? That is ludicrous....I thought I was the only one dealing with those levels of lunacy and we never got that far.
Without wishing to be rude to your old man that behaviour is disgusting, selfish, deluded, infantile and ignorant.
Those who carry on like this tend to be the "look at me, I'm so clever" brigade, but deep down they must be acting out of insecurity and MUST know what the rest of us in the real world think.
Good luck!
It really is crazy, nobody knows what we have to put up with. He never thinks to put himself in me or my brother's shoes (wellies) as to how we are going to cope on our own in the future, it scares me to be honest
merino
Member
- Location
- The North East
It's some subject succession.
I'll tell my tale, if that's what we're doing.
We got quite a lot wrong.
But quite a lot went wrong.
Dad had a stroke around 2008 just before I finished high-school and around the time we finished construction of the farms diversification. Importantly he wasn't diagnosed till 2017.
He was very ill.
It was an absolute f**king disaster, the wheels very nearly came off the whole bloody thing. I worked a lot, mum worked a lot. We came through, I think we even made a profit that year.
Anyway I worked at home all through college and my younger brother did a lot of work too, and we averaged out okay. Made money in fact. Enough to pay people.
We start on the whole succession thing in earnest when I come home from the college full time. Dad's still, six years later, not all right. It's very much a family business.
It took a full year longer than expected for me to get made partner. I was not thrilled about that.
Things not happening, that's a theme from here on out.
Cause the other thing that happens is that I don't get legal advice on the structure and profit sharing of the partnership.
It's wrong for us, for me especially, but they're the farm solicitors and they've been good for heading on a century.
My understanding in retrospect was that the partnership agreement was borderline illegal.
We make a couple big investments around this time, with me coming into the business.
The next autumn we buy a good pile of replacement lambs and the truckers really complimentary and says nice place, nice kit, how do you pay for all this. I say honestly it's the diversification.
He's back before the end of the month to nick every sheep he delivered. He'd be back four more times.
Insurance pays in January. We tup in November.
It knackered the sheep flock
Things get hard going.
Obvious answer is to change to cattle. We'd have to buy some more.
Well the bank wouldn't let me so much as sign a cheque despite the fact that dad's completely out of it that winter, Dr's still don't know what's up with him at this point.
You'd think we could change banks.
I try. First one the manager wants a veto over my future personal relationships. I'm not making that up. I try again. My accountant refused to forward documents on my behalf.
We go through a bunch of legal documents for some inane reason. Our solicitor made a lot of mistakes. They're not talking to us now either.
And it's us, not just me.
Dad's sick, but he's not dumb, or even all that infirm.
The various people working on our behalf won't do anything for him cause he's ill.
They won't do anything for me cause I'm, well it's never clear, but I think it's cause I'm not dad. They won't do anything for mum cause she's not in the business and she's foreign.
We were asking ourselves 'What the f**k is going on?'
We're of course turned down for every single new entrants grant around the same time. You know, the thing that was going to help pay for my entry into the business. Apparently that money is for upper class people from outside agriculture.
Then Brexit starts happening. Due to a couple of unique circumstances there's no way for us to continue the business. We'd be mental.
We decide to sell.
What's a bit sinister is this gets all of the varied profesionals moving again. The bankers especially is suddenly all sweetness and light. pansy. I would bet good money that this is what he wanted all along, me out the picture, and all the money the we'd made farming on deposit.
New solicitor for the sale is a bit of a beast though.
It's very hard. We start out a year before we put it on the market. Dad spends his disability payout, he's finally on the right track to his proper diagnosis.
Turns out since dad's putting money into the business it goes against his share. Fair enough. Just we're not making a profit, we're doing everything we can to sort the farm to sell it. Long story short I now owe the business, gosh, I think I peaked at 30k.
The business buys the improvements but they're all sold with the farm. Which I don't own.
My drawings averaged two grand a year.
Which I had to ask dad for.
Grim isn't the word.
All of my assets in the business that were sold were basically worthless. All the good sheep had been nicked by this point and I hit a sh!t part of the market. I averaged 650 quid for every cow I'd bred since I was sixteen.
Someone bought the dam of my native breed champion for 700 quid.
The first go at the sale fell through. Idiot thought that we were a hapless child and a broken old man so he tried to knock 200k off the price.
Now this is where my story is a bit different. Dad's by some margin one of the most able farmers you will ever meet.
We sold the farm four months later for 200k more.
He piled the money we made from the sale of our cattle into distressed property and, well, it wasn't a loss for very long.
And of course he skipped his medication one morning before hobbling into the bank managers branch and transferred all the money he'd made overseas. Apparently the look on the f**kers face was incredibly cathartic.
I have my own farm now. 100ha if that makes a difference.
My brother got a house.
To my mind my experience is a prime example of how incredibly important independent advice is. But also, I suppose, that you can do a lot if the varied parties are actually on board.
I wouldn't say that we're strictly speaking finished either.
I'll tell my tale, if that's what we're doing.
We got quite a lot wrong.
But quite a lot went wrong.
Dad had a stroke around 2008 just before I finished high-school and around the time we finished construction of the farms diversification. Importantly he wasn't diagnosed till 2017.
He was very ill.
It was an absolute f**king disaster, the wheels very nearly came off the whole bloody thing. I worked a lot, mum worked a lot. We came through, I think we even made a profit that year.
Anyway I worked at home all through college and my younger brother did a lot of work too, and we averaged out okay. Made money in fact. Enough to pay people.
We start on the whole succession thing in earnest when I come home from the college full time. Dad's still, six years later, not all right. It's very much a family business.
It took a full year longer than expected for me to get made partner. I was not thrilled about that.
Things not happening, that's a theme from here on out.
Cause the other thing that happens is that I don't get legal advice on the structure and profit sharing of the partnership.
It's wrong for us, for me especially, but they're the farm solicitors and they've been good for heading on a century.
My understanding in retrospect was that the partnership agreement was borderline illegal.
We make a couple big investments around this time, with me coming into the business.
The next autumn we buy a good pile of replacement lambs and the truckers really complimentary and says nice place, nice kit, how do you pay for all this. I say honestly it's the diversification.
He's back before the end of the month to nick every sheep he delivered. He'd be back four more times.
Insurance pays in January. We tup in November.
It knackered the sheep flock
Things get hard going.
Obvious answer is to change to cattle. We'd have to buy some more.
Well the bank wouldn't let me so much as sign a cheque despite the fact that dad's completely out of it that winter, Dr's still don't know what's up with him at this point.
You'd think we could change banks.
I try. First one the manager wants a veto over my future personal relationships. I'm not making that up. I try again. My accountant refused to forward documents on my behalf.
We go through a bunch of legal documents for some inane reason. Our solicitor made a lot of mistakes. They're not talking to us now either.
And it's us, not just me.
Dad's sick, but he's not dumb, or even all that infirm.
The various people working on our behalf won't do anything for him cause he's ill.
They won't do anything for me cause I'm, well it's never clear, but I think it's cause I'm not dad. They won't do anything for mum cause she's not in the business and she's foreign.
We were asking ourselves 'What the f**k is going on?'
We're of course turned down for every single new entrants grant around the same time. You know, the thing that was going to help pay for my entry into the business. Apparently that money is for upper class people from outside agriculture.
Then Brexit starts happening. Due to a couple of unique circumstances there's no way for us to continue the business. We'd be mental.
We decide to sell.
What's a bit sinister is this gets all of the varied profesionals moving again. The bankers especially is suddenly all sweetness and light. pansy. I would bet good money that this is what he wanted all along, me out the picture, and all the money the we'd made farming on deposit.
New solicitor for the sale is a bit of a beast though.
It's very hard. We start out a year before we put it on the market. Dad spends his disability payout, he's finally on the right track to his proper diagnosis.
Turns out since dad's putting money into the business it goes against his share. Fair enough. Just we're not making a profit, we're doing everything we can to sort the farm to sell it. Long story short I now owe the business, gosh, I think I peaked at 30k.
The business buys the improvements but they're all sold with the farm. Which I don't own.
My drawings averaged two grand a year.
Which I had to ask dad for.
Grim isn't the word.
All of my assets in the business that were sold were basically worthless. All the good sheep had been nicked by this point and I hit a sh!t part of the market. I averaged 650 quid for every cow I'd bred since I was sixteen.
Someone bought the dam of my native breed champion for 700 quid.
The first go at the sale fell through. Idiot thought that we were a hapless child and a broken old man so he tried to knock 200k off the price.
Now this is where my story is a bit different. Dad's by some margin one of the most able farmers you will ever meet.
We sold the farm four months later for 200k more.
He piled the money we made from the sale of our cattle into distressed property and, well, it wasn't a loss for very long.
And of course he skipped his medication one morning before hobbling into the bank managers branch and transferred all the money he'd made overseas. Apparently the look on the f**kers face was incredibly cathartic.
I have my own farm now. 100ha if that makes a difference.
My brother got a house.
To my mind my experience is a prime example of how incredibly important independent advice is. But also, I suppose, that you can do a lot if the varied parties are actually on board.
I wouldn't say that we're strictly speaking finished either.
Gomer Pyle
New Member
I had to deal with very similar situation and 50 quid a week was my amount too although ten years ago
I walked with nothing in the end when 34 years old
I have a good non farming job now But it’s not farming but at least I get paid
Only regrets I have was time and money put into business and lack of pension savings working for a pittance for the selfish old b@5tards to support their wealth status and no doubt the future wealth of one of my parasite sisters
My advice walk away from abusive situation while you still have good years ahead
- Location
- South West
Why is our industry full of so many deluded, sheltered, arrogant fools?
There is a neighbour of mine who knows fine well he is leaving an absolute mess for his kids but appears not to care a jot.
These clowns who are so full of their own self importance seem unaware (or openly unaware anyway, I refuse to believe they don't know the truth deep down inside) of the fact that ;
a) nobody thinks they're being clever, in fact quite the opposite ie "have you heard what that old fool is saying now" chats down the local pub.
and b) when they do eventually pop off, all their stupid 'rules' die with them, and they leave a legacy of a total mess.
These things go against all of what apparently drives them in their everyday life ie "I'm the boss and I'm so clever".
A very, very odd situation, which occurs far to often in our industry.
I actually think a lot of it is driven by insecurity and fear of change. The farming life can be isolated, and if someone isn't shown or taught certain things, or is a stubborn personality, and / or indulged, or happy to follow what went before without question, these things self perpetuate.
But who am I to say? It just makes me sad reading how many of us are dealing with similar.
There is a neighbour of mine who knows fine well he is leaving an absolute mess for his kids but appears not to care a jot.
These clowns who are so full of their own self importance seem unaware (or openly unaware anyway, I refuse to believe they don't know the truth deep down inside) of the fact that ;
a) nobody thinks they're being clever, in fact quite the opposite ie "have you heard what that old fool is saying now" chats down the local pub.
and b) when they do eventually pop off, all their stupid 'rules' die with them, and they leave a legacy of a total mess.
These things go against all of what apparently drives them in their everyday life ie "I'm the boss and I'm so clever".
A very, very odd situation, which occurs far to often in our industry.
I actually think a lot of it is driven by insecurity and fear of change. The farming life can be isolated, and if someone isn't shown or taught certain things, or is a stubborn personality, and / or indulged, or happy to follow what went before without question, these things self perpetuate.
But who am I to say? It just makes me sad reading how many of us are dealing with similar.
Couldn’t agree more, especially when plenty of the lower generations could have left and gone on to much greater things or taken the business forward. I think you are right that it’s insecurity about their own ability or fear of change or losing control. Also why they put everyone else around them down and never give praise when it’s due.