Wire price up again

ollie989898 · Aug 1, 2021

335d said:
Surely the fact that China have decided not to be the worlds dumping ground, has had a massive effect on the the containers returning to China. When the USA were sending all there recycling to China, they loaded it into the Empty incoming containers for the back load. Now there is no incentive for them to gather up and load the empty containers.
If China was still taking the waste, I’m pretty sure they would find the capacity to load the containers, as they did in the past.

As I said, the issue is that the USA imports near 1 million containers per month in a normal time (IIRC there are approx 25 million shipping containers in active circulation worldwide). American people have been buying stuff like crazy during the pandemic (stimulus cheques probably have something to do with it) and the increased demand has been insane. This extra traffic, coupled with labour issues from the pandemic meant that the two main ports on the West coast of the USA were ill prepared for the increase in traffic. They unloaded ships and just stockpiled empties on the dockside out of the way. In a normal time they would have the capacity to reload these empties but they had little capacity for it in the last 18 months. As a result, a huge stockpile of empties are now sat in Long Beach. Even though ships are coming to the USA regularly and could take them back to Asia, there is just no time to load these things back. Shipping is an intensely cost focused business and companies do not want their vessels sat at the dockside for one hour longer than needed. No one is prepared to wait to get unloaded and then load up with a heap of empties for which they will not really get paid.

Brexit had fudge all to do with it.

Tarw Coch · Aug 1, 2021

ollie989898 said:
As I said, the issue is that the USA imports near 1 million containers per month in a normal time (IIRC there are approx 25 million shipping containers in active circulation worldwide). American people have been buying stuff like crazy during the pandemic (stimulus cheques probably have something to do with it) and the increased demand has been insane. This extra traffic, coupled with labour issues from the pandemic meant that the two main ports on the West coast of the USA were ill prepared for the increase in traffic. They unloaded ships and just stockpiled empties on the dockside out of the way. In a normal time they would have the capacity to reload these empties but they had little capacity for it in the last 18 months. As a result, a huge stockpile of empties are now sat in Long Beach. Even though ships are coming to the USA regularly and could take them back to Asia, there is just no time to load these things back. Shipping is an intensely cost focused business and companies do not want their vessels sat at the dockside for one hour longer than needed. No one is prepared to wait to get unloaded and then load up with a heap of empties for which they will not really get paid.

Brexit had fudge all to do with it.

@Kevtherev
@caboverpete
Sounds like a new opportunity for you two, plenty of farmers looking for used shipping containers, you could fill them with that Columbian marching powder you import although you’re going to need a bigger boat.

neilo · Aug 1, 2021

Tarw Coch said:
@Kevtherev
@caboverpete
Sounds like a new opportunity for you two, plenty of farmers looking for used shipping containers, you could fill them with that Columbian marching powder you import although you’re going to need a bigger boat.

I'm not sure they'll want to have a go on a bigger boat again. It didn't end well when they tried doing donuts in the Suez last time.

Greythundercloudys · Aug 1, 2021

I think hay and straw will be cheaper but every other thing just keeps going up every few weeks, when will it stop.

neilo · Aug 1, 2021

exmoor dave said:
One of our landlords sent out a team of volunteers one day to remove a fence around a hill fort (god knows why).... any way said volunteers were equipped with bolt cutters and told to cut the wire either side of the staples I could have cried when I got there and saw that complete waste of 300m of otherwise good wire!

I don't often lose my rag but the ranger in charge got a straight telling...... I now get rolls of 'old' wire from other jobs saved for me to collect

That was the day I realised I was turning in to my dad

I have to confess that I grubbed up an entire fence with the telehandler & grab last year, for the first time ever. The wire was rusted so badly that it snapped whenever a sheep put it's head through, the (50 year old?) chestnut posts had all rotted off at ground level and I couldn't even find a staple worth salvaging.

I've replaced it with a new HT netting on '15 year guaranteed' incised posts so I hopefully won't need to worry about it..... for another 5 years.

The only problem is, the 100 yds I left at one end as 'it didn't look too bad', now looks like it might fall over too.

Jackov Altraids · Aug 1, 2021

Sid said:
18 miles of fencing on one farm.
On an average 220 acre farm with average field size of 12 acres that would be half the farm.

Who let's their farm get in that bad a state of repair?

I do believe you are arguing with yourself.

You've already said "Seen quite serviceable wire being ripped out because CSS will pay for new ".

A point confirmed by @glasshouse

"Thats why materials are short
My ex landlord ripped out all my fences and burnt them, some were new
All were serviceable
Hedges all ripped out
New hedges and fences now, paid by grant "

Kevtherev · Aug 1, 2021

neilo said:
I'm not sure they'll want to have a go on a bigger boat again. It didn't end well when they tried doing donuts in the Suez last time.

Peter was driving

Pistonbroke · Aug 1, 2021

neilo said:
I have to confess that I grubbed up an entire fence with the telehandler & grab last year, for the first time ever. The wire was rusted so badly that it snapped whenever a sheep put it's head through, the (50 year old?) chestnut posts had all rotted off at ground level and I couldn't even find a staple worth salvaging.

I've replaced it with a new HT netting on '15 year guaranteed' incised posts so I hopefully won't need to worry about it..... for another 5 years. The only problem is, the 100 yds I left at one end as 'it didn't look too bad', now looks like it might fall over too.

I had to laugh or cry when I had just paid for some 15yr guarantee stakes and found out that if they rot out in ,say ,the 14th year,the guarantee pays for the remaining life so that's one 15th of the purchase price,so about 12p

neilo · Aug 1, 2021

Pistonbroke said:
I had to laugh or cry when I had just paid for some 15yr guarantee stakes and found out that if they rot out in ,say ,the 14th year,the guarantee pays for the remaining life so that's one 15th of the purchase price,so about 12p

I figure it’s not worth the paper it’s written on, but at least they might have dried them before treating, as opposed to having sap ooze out when you knock a staple in?

So far, they are certainly lasting better than those (cheap) stakes supplied by the estate for some woodland boundary fencing, which are rotting off from 3 years!

Bury the Trash · Aug 1, 2021

why buy them then ?

Jacksons still have a 25yr grantee on their stakes , first used them 6yrs back so well see.

fieldfarmer · Aug 1, 2021

Sid said:
18 miles of fencing on one farm.
On an average 220 acre farm with average field size of 12 acres that would be half the farm.

Who let's their farm get in that bad a state of repair?

Plenty, I have 2 arable farms that the fences are of no importance to me whatsoever but 2 rented where there cattle are that I'm happy too spend money, it's been a while since I've had a phone call to say my wheat has broken out and ran up the road.

Jackov Altraids · Aug 1, 2021

Pistonbroke said:
I had to laugh or cry when I had just paid for some 15yr guarantee stakes and found out that if they rot out in ,say ,the 14th year,the guarantee pays for the remaining life so that's one 15th of the purchase price,so about 12p

I've also heard that the warranty is invalid if the stake has been 'interfered' with such as having a staple hammered into it.

I was looking at the cheapest stakes at MVF and googled the timber code stamped on them.
The code stipulated the timber was only suitable for 'indoor use'!!!

Fendt516profi · Aug 2, 2021

exmoor dave said:
One of our landlords sent out a team of volunteers one day to remove a fence around a hill fort (god knows why).... any way said volunteers were equipped with bolt cutters and told to cut the wire either side of the staples I could have cried when I got there and saw that complete waste of 300m of otherwise good wire!

I don't often lose my rag but the ranger in charge got a straight telling...... I now get rolls of 'old' wire from other jobs saved for me to collect

That was the day I realised I was turning in to my dad

I thought that was going to end 'they got the wrong fence'

neilo · Aug 2, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
why buy them then ?

Jacksons still have a 25yr grantee on their stakes , first used them 6yrs back so well see.

And you think Jackson’s 25yr warranty is any more worthwhile than anyone else’s? There’s plenty of wiggle room on all of them, so I wouldn’t count on it being worth claiming.

Halfway through a 20yr FBT, I’m happy to use the 15yr ones now. Hopefully, by the time they give out, they’ll be the next tenant’s issue.
After the work I’ve done here, he’ll have more miles to fix up than I did.

primmiemoo · Aug 2, 2021

Sid said:
18 miles of fencing on one farm.
On an average 220 acre farm with average field size of 12 acres that would be half the farm.

Who let's their farm get in that bad a state of repair?

Not necessarily any bad state of repair. Where traditional stockproof Devon hedges have grant to rejuvenate (steep, cast up, etc), permanent fencing beside them has been insisted upon. Both sides. We weren't allowed to put a temporary fence to be removed once the hedge work had settled.
Soon clocks up mileage of fence when the window for capital works is shoved to the beginning of a 10yr Agreement. There would be greater pressure with the short-term system nowadays, I'd expect.

Bury the Trash · Aug 2, 2021

neilo said:
And you think Jackson’s 25yr warranty is any more worthwhile than anyone else’s? There’s plenty of wiggle room on all of them, so I wouldn’t count on it being worth claiming.

Halfway through a 20yr FBT, I’m happy to use the 15yr ones now. Hopefully, by the time they give out, they’ll be the next tenant’s issue.
After the work I’ve done here, he’ll have more miles to fix up than I did.

and the chemical they use is no better than what others use,it cant be, as CCA is banned.

here the railway fence is going to be the next challenge (again ) as the woodwork the contractor put in 13yrs yrs ago (wouldve been H4 ) for NR wont last no where near what the concrete post ht wire fence that had been there since the 50ties (but wouldnt stop smaller lambs ) and the wire was rusted) it replaced.
...seems ok up to now tho but it darn well needs to be,what with all the work that went in to doing the work along all the line.

Ffermer Bach · Aug 2, 2021

Sid said:
18 miles of fencing on one farm.
On an average 220 acre farm with average field size of 12 acres that would be half the farm.

Who let's their farm get in that bad a state of repair?

150 acre farm here, and I measured it on the map, 12 km of fencing (a lot of the hedges are double fenced), so if a fence were to last 30 years, I would need to replace 400m a year which is very easily doable, and ideally fence the whole farm once during a working lifetime.

farmerm · Aug 2, 2021

gone up the hill said:
Trouble is if you are in a stewardship scheme you only have two years to do all the capital works!

Not sure how viable these capital work schemes will be if the cost of stakes/ wire etc keep rising as fast as they have been the last few months unless the scheme rates are also increased!

I have a few thousand meters scheduled under mid tier

Sid · Aug 2, 2021

Ffermer Bach said:
150 acre farm here, and I measured it on the map, 12 km of fencing (a lot of the hedges are double fenced), so if a fence were to last 30 years, I would need to replace 400m a year which is very easily doable, and ideally fence the whole farm once during a working lifetime.

I was replying to someone who said farms were doing 30,000 metres not your 800m in the same time frame.

Ffermer Bach · Aug 2, 2021

Sid said:
I was replying to someone who said farms were doing 30,000 metres not your 800m in the same time frame.

hard to believe anyone would let a farm get so run down and not try to keep on top of the fencing, goof fences make good neighbours and all that.

Wire price up again

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Up to 25%

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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