New combine cost

Clive · Aug 24, 2021

kiwi pom said:
I thought you were the contractor on a lot of the ground you farm?

we are, nothing to stop sub contractIng some operations though, we don’t spread fym / compost or cut hedges ourselves as it doesn’t fit with our other workload at those time, why shouldn’t harvest be considered the same ?

I believe in the USA / A etc use of contract custom cutting crews is not uncommon ? Surely not because those fat s are too small to justify the machinery but more likely Labour led decisions I suspect ?

Steevo · Aug 24, 2021

Clive said:
we are, nothing to stop sub contractIng some operations though, we don’t spread fym / compost or cut hedges ourselves as it doesn’t fit with our other workload at those time, why shouldn’t harvest be considered the same ?

I believe in the USA / A etc use of contract custom cutting crews is not uncommon ? Surely not because those fat s are too small to justify the machinery but more likely Labour led decisions I suspect ?

In USA I think it helps that they can spread the harvest over 3 months or so by starting in the south and travelling north. That spreads the cost of the machines over a significantly larger area because they are effectively doing multiples of a season all in one go.

Tesco etc must laugh as us…..we all effectively having one machine for each month of the year, compared to them having almost every asset is almost constant use….and even then they rent/hire/lease vehicles, equipment and stores because they aren’t an efficient use of capital!

Clive · Aug 24, 2021

Steevo said:
In USA I think it helps that they can spread the harvest over 3 months or so by starting in the south and travelling north. That spreads the cost of the machines over a significantly larger area because they are effectively doing multiples of a season all in one go.

Tesco etc must laugh as us…..we all effectively having one machine for each month of the year, compared to them having almost every asset is almost constant use….and even then they rent/hire/lease vehicles, equipment and stores because they aren’t an efficient use of capital!

no one thinks twice about using a contractor self prop forager, even large dairy farms often use contractors it seems - expensive machinery and high peak Labour requirement, specialist operation …………… like cereal harvest really

Steevo · Aug 24, 2021

Enry said:
We were discussing this earlier - My Mrs had her nails done....paid nigh on what you'd pay to combine an acre of cereals! Nail girlie has a few bits of kit and took an hour or so...... no breakdowns, weather issues, works all year round...

Does she contract hire her nail kit to make more efficient use of the capital….? I hear this saves tax too because it can all be put down as an expense rather than capital allowances…!

Steevo · Aug 24, 2021

Clive said:
no one thinks twice about using a contractor self prop forager, even late dairy fans use contractors it seems - expensive machinery and high peak Labour requirement, specialist operation …………… like cereal harvest really

Totally agree on that. There is a lot to be said for that.

Just trying to think about why there is a contrast between the two…I guess the contractor cost per £000 of turnover is probably slightly different.

If August wasn’t one of the wettest months of the year that would help too but I doubt would change things.

Added to the fact a SP can be used from April right through to Oct/Nov for maize help keep the cost down for contractors running one too.

Two Tone · Aug 24, 2021

A good business should consider ALL the options, yes.
But personal choice is equally as important.
If using a Contractor, what sort of drying facilities are available?
How do you cope with the stress of good weather, but the contractor is busy elsewhere?

Justify having your own Combine by making it available to do Contracting for selected others .
You can’t farm from a Tractor/Combine seat. But personal preference as to how you like to do things and the pride it will give you will usually make you a lot happier and it pay for itself.

Farming without my own arable harvesting equipment is NOT a risk or unhappiness I’m prepared to put up with, period!

kiwi pom · Aug 24, 2021

Clive said:
we are, nothing to stop sub contractIng some operations though, we don’t spread fym / compost or cut hedges ourselves as it doesn’t fit with our other workload at those time, why shouldn’t harvest be considered the same ?

I believe in the USA / A etc use of contract custom cutting crews is not uncommon ? Surely not because those fat s are too small to justify the machinery but more likely Labour led decisions I suspect ?

I get that but its starting to sound like a government job. The land owner contracts out the farming on his land, but still wants to be classed as a farmer, then the contractor subs out the work, I bet the sub contractor has self employed staff too. You'd wonder how there was enough in the job for everyone to make money.

Can you not do hedgecutting in winter as you already have the tractor and man?

Lowland1 · Aug 25, 2021

If your contractor gives you priority then fair enough but if like our farm in England he will ‘get there when he gets there’ then forget it you will get priority if you’ve got a thousand acres of wheat in big fields and good storage however a small amount of mixed cropping gets you right at the bottom of the list. It always hurts me to see someone else’s machinery in my fields and to work all year and then be reliant on someone else makes no sense. This year I will buy two combines ( but don’t tell my wife)

icanshootwell · Aug 25, 2021

I have always found buying 2nd hand combine is the most profitable way to cut your corn, unless your a very big grower.
Most combines are traded in around 1500-2000 hrs and still have plenty of life left in them, always helps to know your way around them with the spanners, a friend has been running a 2006 lexion 540 they bought for about 60k 5 years ago, it cuts about 500a a year with very little issues, has about 3500 hrs on the clock now and still looks tidy, could even be more than that. Probably don,t owe them much now, stuck in the shed for 10 months of the year is not such an issue anymore.

SilliamWhale · Aug 25, 2021

Enry said:
We were discussing this earlier - My Mrs had her nails done....paid nigh on what you'd pay to combine an acre of cereals! Nail girlie has a few bits of kit and took an hour or so...... no breakdowns, weather issues, works all year round...

Why don't you start doing nails?

Renaultman · Aug 25, 2021

DrWazzock said:
Well it all depends on how much you have got to do, if you have a neighbour with spare capacity, whether you like spanner work yourself etc etc.
If was Mr Dyson I’d be buying brand new.
If I had 1000 acres plus to do I’d buy good newish secondhand dealer serviced.
Less than that and I think we are into contractor territory or an older “enthusiasts” machine, driven by yourself.
What scares me most about newer secondhand is the combination of electronics and mice etc. Simpler older machines are getting harder to find that aren’t cracking up with metal fatigue or are worn through the elevators etc.
I’d say it’s heading down the route of new purchases being for large commercial concerns. The rest using contractors. And then there are hobbyists like myself, tinkering.

That puts me in the tinkering camp too.

Grassman · Aug 25, 2021

Relying on contractors to do harvest is good if the weather plays ball.
Lots of farmers have memories of those years where you just have to keep nipping in and doing an odd field when possible.

Oscar · Aug 25, 2021

Well I got the best of both camps I think ?
Use to have a biggish rotary combine on contract hire working with another farmer and doing some contract work , 1500 acs/ yr plus any firebirgade work we picked up .
Decided to quit the joint job and combine went . The contractor in the area ( who was our/ my competition) was approached about doing my area 400acs and he said yes but it's going to be tight with his combines he had at the time . I said he would have work 100 % for 5 yrs at least and he decides to buy a third combine but asks me to drive it , so win win really . Into yr 4 this year and yes I m waiting to cut my wheat as I write this but got 2 days on others and then its here for mine .
Contractor runs a 5 Walker hillside, narrow body rotary hillside and I drive a tracked narrow body rotary

Clive · Aug 25, 2021

Two Tone said:
A good business should consider ALL the options, yes.
But personal choice is equally as important.
If using a Contractor, what sort of drying facilities are available?
How do you cope with the stress of good weather, but the contractor is busy elsewhere?

Justify having your own Combine by making it available to do Contracting for selected others .
You can’t farm from a Tractor/Combine seat. But personal preference as to how you like to do things and the pride it will give you will usually make you a lot happier and it pay for itself.

Farming without my own arable harvesting equipment is NOT a risk or unhappiness I’m prepared to put up with, period!

the days of not running a farm 100% as a business are gone, i’m not wealthy enough do this for fun so will always make the best financial decision at the time - simply can’t afford not to in a unsubsidised future

“pride” “happiness” are personal values and aspirations, and whilst personally important such emotion should be separated from GOOD business decisions “pride comes before a fall” springs to mind!!

a lot of farmers have a massive financial reality check coming

tullah · Aug 25, 2021

We've so far snatched most of our wheat from 4pm onwards. What contractor will be on standby like that?

Clive · Aug 25, 2021

tullah said:
We've so far snatched most of our wheat from 4pm onwards. What contractor will be on standby like that?

whats the point in getting a job done if the job isn’t viable ?

a contractor would be in the same position as any farmer in a tricky year - snatching when they can

key is surely having a contractor or maybe multiple contractors with enough capacity ?

simonk88 · Aug 25, 2021

We have dropped from 2 combines to 1 across combinable 5000ac, freed up an extra person and lots of capital. More efficient and cost effective to extend the working day and use the dryer than run two machines. We would aim to start cutting by 8am and stop by 10pm, quick blow down and everyone home. Dryer can cope with taking out 5% at 93tph, less cost compared to a large combine, more versatile and more margin for any contract work, especially as we can dress malting barley etc so add value for the customer.

Grassman · Aug 25, 2021

simonk88 said:
We have dropped from 2 combines to 1 across combinable 5000ac, freed up an extra person and lots of capital. More efficient and cost effective to extend the working day and use the dryer than run two machines. We would aim to start cutting by 8am and stop by 10pm, quick blow down and everyone home. Dryer can cope with taking out 5% at 93tph, less cost compared to a large combine, more versatile and more margin for any contract work, especially as we can dress malting barley etc so add value for the customer.

That just shows how different the job is across farming in the UK and what works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

Al R · Aug 25, 2021

simonk88 said:
We have dropped from 2 combines to 1 across combinable 5000ac, freed up an extra person and lots of capital. More efficient and cost effective to extend the working day and use the dryer than run two machines. We would aim to start cutting by 8am and stop by 10pm, quick blow down and everyone home. Dryer can cope with taking out 5% at 93tph, less cost compared to a large combine, more versatile and more margin for any contract work, especially as we can dress malting barley etc so add value for the customer.

More impressed that your dryer can take out 5% at 93tph than the fact your cutting 5,000ac with 1 machine. There was a pair of 600TT’s 35ft not far from @Clive in 07/08 cutting close to 8,000 acres with a huge variety of crops including linseed, beans and S OSR making it more achievable, I seem to remember they didn’t have any fields under 50 acre.

Clive · Aug 25, 2021

Al R said:
More impressed that your dryer can take out 5% at 93tph than the fact your cutting 5,000ac with 1 machine. There was a pair of 600TT’s 35ft not far from @Clive in 07/08 cutting close to 8,000 acres with a huge variety of crops including linseed, beans and S OSR making it more achievable, I seem to remember they didn’t have any fields under 50 acre.

I don't think we would, ever get more than 3000ac out of a single machine here regardless of spot capacity due to logistics of field size, the spread of units, dryer, haulage and store limitations

New combine cost

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Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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