"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

holwellcourtfarm · Sep 13, 2021

ShooTa said:
its alright chaps - we can buy a regenerative grass seed..

New regenerative grass seed Estate Range launched

New regenerative grass seed Estate Range launched A new regenerative Estate Range of grass seed has been launched to the market by Lincolnshire-based seed specialist Cope Seeds and Grain. Launched to complement integrated farming systems, the range will enable landowners to reduce input...

thefarmingforum.co.uk

I'm just waiting to hear somebody released a new "regenerative diesel" fuel product now....

Or even a new "regenerative tractor range"

Kiwi Pete · Sep 13, 2021

We're getting lots of regenerative rain

holwellcourtfarm · Sep 13, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
We're getting lots of regenerative rain

Ah, good, none of that corporate degenerative rain then.....

Kiwi Pete · Sep 13, 2021

It's just about getting to runoff stage now, it dries out when the rain stops and then we get heavy rain and it looks all full again.

Wouldn't really want to be regenerative tractoring at the moment

Samcowman · Sep 13, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
Ah, good, none of that corporate degenerative rain then.....

that only happens next door to Pete when it’s running off taking the soil with it.

Kiwi Pete · Sep 13, 2021

Samcowman said:
that only happens next door to Pete when it’s running off taking the soil with it.

It's running into our place from the (rested all winter long) dairy paddock and then going to ground when it gets here.

Samcowman · Sep 13, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
It's running into our place from the (rested all winter long) dairy paddock and then going to ground when it gets here.

That’s one way to increase your topsoil height by grabbing next doors

som farmer · Sep 13, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
Which clover are we talking about?

If you're looking for early-season legumes, it'd make sense to plant some, because your regular whites and reds like warmth.
Having a high seedrate doesn't change the plant's preference for warmer soils and less shading - that's why they put white clover in ryegrass mixes, two complementary gapfillers.

You may be better to sow peas, beans, or vetches as well?

@Blaithin frostseeded some cicer milkvetch (I think?) and it looked pretty successful from what I saw

tried vetches in a grazing mix last year, they grew, cows grazed, they went. And yet, in a mix, with the h/rye they were fantastic, or looked like they were, analysis now impossible, until we have used a big chunk of grass silage.
Not actually sure spear samples of silage clamps, are that accurate, we have just had a silage one, with a protien of 9%, from a high clover cutting ley, cut pre heading, so l actually hope it is wrong !
It's quite noticeable now, to see increasing references to regen, in the ag press, while that is good, it will lead down a road, where it is targeted by the suppliers, and probably the processors, so will get very close to the dreaded rule book.
Which might not be so bad, if it is sold to the public, and gets recognised, as organic farming is, with a bonus, on price, or it may simply split the organic 'market place'. My opinion of regen, broadly speaking, is a 'relaxed' way of organic farming, where using better ag practices, as organic does, with the luxury of being able to utilise the modern tools, that are available. Total organic farming, will never enable farmers, or the population, to be self sufficient, a fact that the zealots refuse to believe, l do think regen can get a lot closer to that goal, unless it gets incredibly complicated by getting a ####### rule book.
and now l will look up cicer vetch.

som farmer · Sep 13, 2021

holwellcourtfarm said:
I'm just waiting to hear somebody released a new "regenerative diesel" fuel product now....

Or even a new "regenerative tractor range"

well, tractors are classed by horsepower ................
and @Samcowman they used to dig the topsoil from the bottom of slopes, and spread it, at the top again, all by hand ....
One of the things that really hit home, when the archaeologists were here, was soil movement, and the massive effect it has had on the topography, in some places, not here, up to 20 foot difference, they like to dig down to the 'natural' or original soil level.

Kiwi Pete · Sep 13, 2021

Samcowman said:
That’s one way to increase your topsoil height by grabbing next doors

Yep, the worst thing is that the sediment does tend to be very clayish/silty stuff that likes to "seal"

however if I had smooth sheep pastures there would be a river going past at the moment, all those prints help slow the flow.

The creek that only drains our bit is starting to flow, the creek right down the back comes in from the neighbour and is in flood mode, flowing over one of the culverts here which has an 10 inch concrete pipe under it

so yes it's plenty wet

Samcowman · Sep 13, 2021

som farmer said:
tried vetches in a grazing mix last year, they grew, cows grazed, they went. And yet, in a mix, with the h/rye they were fantastic, or looked like they were, analysis now impossible, until we have used a big chunk of grass silage.
Not actually sure spear samples of silage clamps, are that accurate, we have just had a silage one, with a protien of 9%, from a high clover cutting ley, cut pre heading, so l actually hope it is wrong !
It's quite noticeable now, to see increasing references to regen, in the ag press, while that is good, it will lead down a road, where it is targeted by the suppliers, and probably the processors, so will get very close to the dreaded rule book.
Which might not be so bad, if it is sold to the public, and gets recognised, as organic farming is, with a bonus, on price, or it may simply split the organic 'market place'. My opinion of regen, broadly speaking, is a 'relaxed' way of organic farming, where using better ag practices, as organic does, with the luxury of being able to utilise the modern tools, that are available. Total organic farming, will never enable farmers, or the population, to be self sufficient, a fact that the zealots refuse to believe, l do think regen can get a lot closer to that goal, unless it gets incredibly complicated by getting a ####### rule book.
and now l will look up cicer vetch.

I would definitely question that silage analysis. Had analysis back for 2nd cut red clover silage which was fully flowered back last week at 18%protein. Just waiting on 3rd cut results. The stuff just keeps growing brings the ration cost down significantly

crashbox · Sep 13, 2021

Just wondering people's thoughts on best electric fence posts?
I've hear good things about Strainrite, I guess 6mm x 1040mm for cattle. Not cheap though (over £5 each).
Open to suggestions!

Fenwick · Sep 13, 2021

som farmer said:
Total organic farming, will never enable farmers, or the population, to be self sufficient, a fact that the zealots refuse to believe,

Bit odd that all the most developed countries who use the most machines and chemicals are also the least self sufficient, while countries with high organic production % such as Bhutan also have a greater autonomy.

We can easily produce enough food organically, the problem is more political than technical.

Blaithin · Sep 13, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
Which clover are we talking about?

If you're looking for early-season legumes, it'd make sense to plant some, because your regular whites and reds like warmth.
Having a high seedrate doesn't change the plant's preference for warmer soils and less shading - that's why they put white clover in ryegrass mixes, two complementary gapfillers.

You may be better to sow peas, beans, or vetches as well?

@Blaithin frostseeded some cicer milkvetch (I think?) and it looked pretty successful from what I saw

I think the Sainfoin did just as well as the milkvetch but I haven’t seen either since the rain has dropped and the grazing has increased.

If you need a plant to fill the gap in spring before the warm season growers kick in, then look for cool season growers. Alfalfa, trefoil, etc.

Grazing Fact Sheets - Species - Cool-Season Perennial Legumes | NRCS Illinois

ShooTa · Sep 13, 2021

crashbox said:
Just wondering people's thoughts on best electric fence posts?
I've hear good things about Strainrite, I guess 6mm x 1040mm for cattle. Not cheap though (over £5 each).
Open to suggestions!

rappa for daily moves -or kiwitech
kiwitech/firbreglass for all semi-perm

Fenwick · Sep 13, 2021

crashbox said:
Just wondering people's thoughts on best electric fence posts?
I've hear good things about Strainrite, I guess 6mm x 1040mm for cattle. Not cheap though (over £5 each).
Open to suggestions!

I use strainrites. Both the 6mm and 7mm (i prefer the 7mm).

they are good posts. as is most strainrite gear.

saying that, im probably going to endup with kiwitech at some point.

Samcowman · Sep 13, 2021

I have got some Rutland black ones. Near indestructible. This year I needed some more and got some cheap ones. Oh what a Mistake that was they have zero strength and then about the top half a foot breaks off.
One day I will get some proper fencing gear.

som farmer · Sep 13, 2021

Fenwick said:
Bit odd that all the most developed countries who use the most machines and chemicals are also the least self sufficient, while countries with high organic production % such as Bhutan also have a greater autonomy.

We can easily produce enough food organically, the problem is more political than technical.

the political aspect, has changed the world, for the majority, the need for 'better' living, negates the chances of succeeding, especially in densely populated countries. One of the expanding markets, for UK ag product, is in those countries where the standard of living has risen, and meat consumption rises, with it. One of the few re-assurances of a post brexit UK, is that we are targeting the far east mkt, where economies are booming, rather than some of our traditional mkts, which are stagnating, but that is politics, and not for this thread !
Bhutan, l believe, lives a pastoral life style, no cars as such, with quite isolated communities, and that is how they wish to live, and obviously happy, and have little government, or royal, interference. But, many countries prefer not to live like that, and wish to attain a higher standard of living, which means swapping rice for wheat, and more meat.
Perhaps, education, more than politics, is to blame in many 3rd world countries, for the lack of sustainable ag. But, for the majority, organic production, will not feed rising populations.
I do think Bhutan, is very lucky, in that it has achieved 'tranquillity' and l feel a bit envious, most of us, have managed to achieve a grade of complexity, in our lives, that would be nearly unbelievable to them.

exmoor dave · Sep 13, 2021

Samcowman said:
I have got some Rutland black ones. Near indestructible. This year I needed some more and got some cheap ones. Oh what a Mistake that was they have zero strength and then about the top half a foot breaks off.
One day I will get some proper fencing gear.

Did JD not tell you about the 5% discount for being part of the pasture patrol posse

som farmer · Sep 13, 2021

a before and after, both pics taken as near as the same spot, l think the cows liked it.
We grazed it out of rotation, as we have a slew making cow tracks, and breaking fences, easier to put them here, than bodge fences up, before slew finishes.
Even here, the sward is rather open in the bottom, production wise, no complaints. Pics were taken 3 days apart.

"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

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