Seeing this already locally... How many will survive in the brave new world...?
Thoughts on loosing BPS and replacing with ELMS?
- Thread starter YorkshireTom25
- Start date
Seeing this already locally... How many will survive in the brave new world...?
Already starting to see the emergence of some, soon to be branded, 'super contractors' down this way. Sadly I suspect the smaller businesses will really have to think outside the box to keep going.
I don't know any figures or percentages of those that will be leaving the industry, but there's going to be a hell of alot of disappointed farmers who were expecting the Government to look after them financially better, as we " take back control "
I don't know any figures or percentages of those that will be leaving the industry, but there's going to be a hell of alot of disappointed farmers who were expecting the Government to look after them financially better, as we " take back control "
- Location
- North Somerset.
Bps is a simple way for government to pump money into the rural economy. If, as seems likely the take up of SFI or ELMS or whatever it is called is poor the rural economy will show a downturn as farmers have less money to spend. The original European farm subsidy schemes were designed for the purpose of keeping French and German farmers on the land because the French had experience of migration to the cities with civil unrest and revolution and their politicians didn’t want to face Mdm Guillotine. If there is rural depopulation there are social consequences and the government need to take this into account because the costs will far outweigh any savings in the subsidy to farmers.
The government will also lose control of the countryside, imagine being able to cut your hedges when it suited you because there is no subsidy to lose!
The government will also lose control of the countryside, imagine being able to cut your hedges when it suited you because there is no subsidy to lose!
Maybe if an owned family farm, but not so sure if tenanted .
Truth is that 300/400 acre farms can no longer really expect to carry 2/3 generations, unless doing something quite intensive like dairy
It’s not really being paid to retire, just a percentage of the BPS that you’d have got anyway . I very much doubt it’d be much in the grand scheme of things and I doubt many will jump at it. After all , you will get taxed in one hit, so might as well carry on getting a reduced BPS for a few more years .
Mixedupfarmer
Member
- Location
- Norfolk
Seems attractive as a tenant, cash most of your future bps money, but with no rent to pay to get it. Just need a new country to relocate the business.
I think after 2024 it’ll be de coupled anyway , so no need to farm to get the last few years worth.Seems attractive as a tenant, cash most of your future bps money, but with no rent to pay to get it. Just need a new country to relocate the business.
Tubbylew
Member
- Location
- Herefordshire
Amen to that, at the risk of sounding like a whinging millennial.
Mixedupfarmer
Member
- Location
- Norfolk
Be little left after 2024 though. Maybe help rents fall then?
That’ll be the difficult bit .
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
As I recall if I get caught braking a law, lets say speeding for example, I don’t get a payment withheld, I pay the fine or go to jail...
- Location
- Fife
So 2 people required, that's £30k drawings each. That's £60k total.
Need to assign a labour figure of £150/acre then.
What else needs to be paid for? Nominal rent of £100/acre to land holding business. Some insurances, fence maintenance and running costs on a quad. A bit of haulage to get to market and some flock depreciation. Vet med and dead stock disposal.
Call it all another £100/acre. That's only £350/acre.
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I were a tenant thinking of retirement, I would be giving notice to quit for September 2023. That way they would receive 21, 22, 23 ( more than the 2.35 that may be offered for the Lump sum) and then top up future income with the de linked payments 24, 25,26 and 27. Less of a taxation issue than the Lump sum might be (depends on HMRC view of the retirement scheme, yet to be determined.)
4course
Member
- Location
- north yorks
are folks thinking that a lot of older farmers will retire , im not so sure as in many cases the bps is simply being replaced by a pension ,of course there will still be those who sell up and retire as now ,but im not so sure the numbers will increase dramatically ,why should they
if older farmers retire and take the lump sum , their is still one major hurdle with out subsidies the young farmers which government wants encourage won’t survive on the smaller farms any way so it’s all a waste of time. What will happen is very large contractors and farmers 5000 / 20000 ac will mop up the blocks of land . You hardly ever see farms come on the market for rent etc , they just end up being farmed by the largest guys in the area. Must be some cash pocketing by these agents ?
4course
Member
- Location
- north yorks
what folks are missing is that the govt , land agents plus most landlords have no real idea or ongoing interest in support of the old family farming business (nor have the nfu and others) and in reality are much happier dealing with another corporate outfit whose chairman - managing director of agriculture - or whatever the job title is effectively only in tenure for a few years unlike a lifetime tenant. As long as the rent is paid and their business is growing they are happy ,whilst at the same time removing any direct connect with the land or locality
What did you diversify into?