Thoughts on loosing BPS and replacing with ELMS?

No wot

Member
Letting land isn't such a money maker for the agents , so rather than dealing with 4or 5 tenants on one estate just let it to 1 or 2 for half the hassle and cost , same result and you still get 1st dibs on dealing with landlords building land
if older farmers retire and take the lump sum , their is still one major hurdle with out subsidies the young farmers which government wants encourage won’t survive on the smaller farms any way so it’s all a waste of time. What will happen is very large contractors and farmers 5000 / 20000 ac will mop up the blocks of land . You hardly ever see farms come on the market for rent etc , they just end up being farmed by the largest guys in the area. Must be some cash pocketing by these agents ?
 

oil barron

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
So that isn’t really diversifying the farm business?
No, but it has allowed me to buy my own small farm. Which would have been difficult doing contracting / farm shop / glamping.
Getting a job isn’t for everyone and it comes with a lot of ties having to turn up everyday and bite your tongue in a lot of situations.
But when I look at a lot of the business diversification’s and the financial risk/ capital involved if often think why don’t you just drive a lorry for a couple of months in the winter. It would give you the same amount of revenue for less risk.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
i think it's going to be a major 'cock up' leading to production plummeting and there's going to be a 'u' turn in some way
There are some very fragile and precarious operations out there....... talking with folk they're almost adamant "something will come along to save the day" and that was possibly the last two decades of reasonably good going across most sectors.
Obviously pigs/poultry are relatively immune to withdrawl of area payments, but they aren't immune to the effects of economic cascade

otherwise NZ would be porcine heaven and it just isn't
 

topground

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Somerset.
As I recall if I get caught braking a law, lets say speeding for example, I don’t get a payment withheld, I pay the fine or go to jail...
@farmerm Breaking which law? If you are suggesting that it is an offence to cut hedges before a certain date please quote chapter and verse. Also is this a summary or indictable offence and which is the prosecutions authority?
 

GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
@farmerm Breaking which law? If you are suggesting that it is an offence to cut hedges before a certain date please quote chapter and verse. Also is this a summary or indictable offence and which is the prosecutions authority?
We don't know the details yet but the government has made repeated references to 'alternative enforcement methods' when the subs have gone. It will be interesting to see how they will go about it but it would appear they have no intention of relinquishing control whether farmers are receiving any payments or not.

The Agriculture Bill provides powers that enable a safe transition away from the CAP and cross compliance. Establishing a future regulatory model will take time, and we want to work with the sector to get it right whilst ensuring we always have a robust system of inspection and enforcement in place to maintain regulatory standards.

Regulation and enforcement
Between 2021 and 2024, we will make improvements to the way regulation and enforcement work.
When we delink payments in 2024, we will stop using cross-compliance as the main way to inspect and enforce against baseline regulations (the regulatory requirements all farms have to meet). We will work with farmers to design a new approach that is more fair, proportionate and effective.

2.4 Regulation of legal requirements
By the end of the agricultural transition, we will have a reformed regulatory regime for
agriculture. From 2021 we will start improving the way we manage within the existing rules
and processes. We will consult during the early transition to allow a new regulatory
approach to be implemented from 2024.
We want a clear distinction, and coherent relationship, between the basic requirements
farmers are obliged to meet by law, and scheme standards where they are paid to go
beyond this minimum.
 

Northern territory

Member
Livestock Farmer
No, but it has allowed me to buy my own small farm. Which would have been difficult doing contracting / farm shop / glamping.
Getting a job isn’t for everyone and it comes with a lot of ties having to turn up everyday and bite your tongue in a lot of situations.
But when I look at a lot of the business diversification’s and the financial risk/ capital involved if often think why don’t you just drive a lorry for a couple of months in the winter. It would give you the same amount of revenue for less risk.
Very good points well made. I was only thinking the other day how many diversification’s have actually led to farms expanding their owned land. I can’t think of many around here. As for super contractors it seems to be going that way around here.
 

DRC

Member
Letting land isn't such a money maker for the agents , so rather than dealing with 4or 5 tenants on one estate just let it to 1 or 2 for half the hassle and cost , same result and you still get 1st dibs on dealing with landlords building land
This is exactly what our agents openly admit they want . As and when any of us retire , there won’t be new young tenants, it’ll all go to one big operator
 

delilah

Member
i think it's going to be a major 'cock up' leading to production plummeting and there's going to be a 'u' turn in some way

Yes, i'm convinced the way it looks at this point in time is cock up rather than conspiracy. Which is why, if I was Defra, I would find it really, really useful if a few more posters on here would say what they wish it looked like, rather than moaning about what is does look like.
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
We don't know the details yet but the government has made repeated references to 'alternative enforcement methods' when the subs have gone. It will be interesting to see how they will go about it but it would appear they have no intention of relinquishing control whether farmers are receiving any payments or not.

The Agriculture Bill provides powers that enable a safe transition away from the CAP and cross compliance. Establishing a future regulatory model will take time, and we want to work with the sector to get it right whilst ensuring we always have a robust system of inspection and enforcement in place to maintain regulatory standards.

Regulation and enforcement
Between 2021 and 2024, we will make improvements to the way regulation and enforcement work.
When we delink payments in 2024, we will stop using cross-compliance as the main way to inspect and enforce against baseline regulations (the regulatory requirements all farms have to meet). We will work with farmers to design a new approach that is more fair, proportionate and effective.

2.4 Regulation of legal requirements
By the end of the agricultural transition, we will have a reformed regulatory regime for
agriculture. From 2021 we will start improving the way we manage within the existing rules
and processes. We will consult during the early transition to allow a new regulatory
approach to be implemented from 2024.
We want a clear distinction, and coherent relationship, between the basic requirements
farmers are obliged to meet by law, and scheme standards where they are paid to go
beyond this minimum.
Agreed.

If the centre loses control through "Cross compliance" then expect at least some of the cross compliance rules to become law.

For hedges, it would be a simple step to add closed timing seasons into the Wildlife and Countryside Act or the CROW Act.

At the very least it'd be a requirement for a recorded nest survey by a "competent person" before cutting....
 

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
Yes, i'm convinced the way it looks at this point in time is cock up rather than conspiracy. Which is why, if I was Defra, I would find it really, really useful if a few more posters on here would say what they wish it looked like, rather than moaning about what is does look like.

bin all the current plans...£80/ac flat rate on condition that farm scores points based on old/modified els scheme....capped at £150,000 per holding
 

Stw88

Member
Location
Northumberland
Well if the requirements were simple like entry level was it wouldn’t be so bad, but not spraying rushes and thistles isn’t doing the uplands any good. It’s been hellish for flys and ticks this year and I’m sure the problem is being exaggerated by the roughness of the ground. Natural England havnt realised that ground nesting birds don’t like jungles. We have less birds nesting now than we used to when we weren’t in any schemes.
 

delilah

Member
Well if the requirements were simple like entry level was it wouldn’t be so bad, but not spraying rushes and thistles isn’t doing the uplands any good. It’s been hellish for flys and ticks this year and I’m sure the problem is being exaggerated by the roughness of the ground. Natural England havnt realised that ground nesting birds don’t like jungles. We have less birds nesting now than we used to when we weren’t in any schemes.

So that reinforces the point that others have made. There should be a mix of options to choose from, to achieve your points, but none of those options should be compulsory.

The three-tier system they are currently proposing (introductory, intermediate, advanced) needs scrapping. To be replaced by a range of options you can choose from to get your points ?
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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  • Up to 25%

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    Votes: 30 16.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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