Fert prices vs fallow ?

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
So at what price point for N do you fallow your farm ?

early bought N which seemed expensive at the time now looks cheap, how about selling it on and taking a year out ?
And you say that organic production can't feed the world.

Your reliance on energy hungry chemical inputs comes home to roost you surrender

What a joke!
 
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8100

Member
Location
South Cheshire
Anyone ever grown some comfrey to plough in or add to dung .Its full of N . A old fella yrs ago told me they put a hessian sack full in the waterbutts during the war and still had to dilute it as it was quite strong stuff .
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
And you say that organic production can't feed the world.

Your reliance on energy hungry chemical inputs comes home to roost you surrender

What a joke!
organic can’t feed the world ,that is a fact, only a fool would think cutting output by 50% or more would still provide enough food to go around, and that’s before predicted population growth over the next few decades

cutting waste etc valid points but in reality easier said than done and probably nowhere close to enough in reality

economics don’t work either, either organic looses it premium as it becomes default and becomes unviable for farmers or food prices rise dramatically and Billions can no longer afford to eat ………. Not selfish at all !


equally you are right - Reliance upon synthetic inputs is completely unsustainable !

so unless we can find another way pretty dam fast things don’t look pretty !
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
organic can’t feed the world ,that is a fact, only a fool would think cutting output by 50% or more would still provide enough food to go around, and that’s before predicted population growth over the next few decades

cutting waste etc valid points but in reality easier said than done and probably nowhere close to enough in reality

economics don’t work either, either organic looses it premium as it becomes default and becomes unviable for farmers or food prices rise dramatically and Billions can no longer afford to eat ………. Not selfish at all !


equally you are right - Reliance upon synthetic inputs is completely unsustainable !

so unless we can find another way pretty dam fast things don’t look pretty !
Just face it Clive, your reliance on chemicals has made you realise that your farming system isn't fit for purpose.

Everything else you have said is your opinion not backed up by evidence. If the supply of food so cheap that it can be wasted is the backbone of your business then population growth will just add to the fact that a system so reliant on energy input is doomed to fail or is that fallow. Propped up by SFI it seems.
 

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
Stick or twist, it's Vegas baby 😂😭... but without the glamour.

You can't get out when you the stock is worth nothing, so you have to keep going.

Best time to expand is when the market is on the floor if your pockets are deep enough.
I'm sure there are a lot of arable farmers queuing up to get into pigs at the moment with the end of bps round the corner. In fact I am offering a few weeks of work experience at the moment cleaning out dirty summer finishing pens if there are any takers.😉

Got to be in it, to win it.
seeing your post reminded me of a reply i got to a pig farming thread i started in july
 
organic can’t feed the world ,that is a fact, only a fool would think cutting output by 50% or more would still provide enough food to go around, and that’s before predicted population growth over the next few decades

cutting waste etc valid points but in reality easier said than done and probably nowhere close to enough in reality

economics don’t work either, either organic looses it premium as it becomes default and becomes unviable for farmers or food prices rise dramatically and Billions can no longer afford to eat ………. Not selfish at all !


equally you are right - Reliance upon synthetic inputs is completely unsustainable !

so unless we can find another way pretty dam fast things don’t look pretty !
Came across a european farmer on twitter complaining he was having to go back to ploughing his nicely conditioned no till soils because certain chemicals needed for no till were banned, out of interest is this likely to happen here?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Just face it Clive, your reliance on chemicals has made you realise that your farming system isn't fit for purpose.

Everything else you have said is your opinion not backed up by evidence. If the supply of food so cheap that it can be wasted is the backbone of your business then population growth will just add to the fact that a system so reliant on energy input is doomed to fail or is that fallow. Propped up by SFI it seems.

that’s true Sid. - I did realise my reliance on chemicals and other synthetic inputs was not fit for purpose ………. About 15 years ago now as it goes ! Hence the changes I have made and hope to continue to make

what’s not factual about cutting food production by 50% or more not feeding the world ? Do we currently produce 150% plus of requirments at the moment ? …….. no

i would keep quiet and protect your premiums if I were you, if organic became default there would be no premium and viability would disappear

8.4 million live in food poverty in the UK alone …….. can’t see them paying Dayelsford farm prices can you ?


synthitic agriculture is broken, organic is NOT a viable solution however

somewhere between organic and synthetic maybe the answer - some call it regenerative ? Maybe it’s the future, maybe it’s not but pretty sure the current polarisd organic or synthetic approaches as we know them are not
 
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Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Came across a european farmer on twitter complaining he was having to go back to ploughing his nicely conditioned no till soils because certain chemicals needed for no till were banned, out of interest is this likely to happen here?

maybe, who knows, politicians can be illogical

will worry about it when it happens, would prefer to not have to go back causing pollution with cultivation however, if it came to that I would probably put our entire farm into agro environmental schemes and retire frankly ……… so maybe not a bad thing 🤣
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
that’s true Sid. - I did realise my reliance on chemicals and other synthetic inputs was not fit for purpose ………. About 15 years ago now as it goes ! Hence the changes I have made and hope to continue to make

what’s not factual about cutting food production by 50% or more not feeding the world ? Do with currently produce 150% plus if requirments at the moment ? …….. no

i would keep quiet and protect your premiums if I were you, if organic became default there would be no premium and viability would disappear

8.4 million live in food poverty in the UK alone …….. can’t see them paying Dayelsford farm prices can you ?


synthitic agriculture is broken, organic is NOT a viable solution however

somewhere between organic and synthetic maybe the answer - some call it regenerative ? Maybe it’s the future, maybe it’s not but pretty sure the current polarisd organic or synthetic approaches as we know them are not
Even now its not viable if you are talking about fallowing your farm. Is the system really working?

Even with your so called efficient system your still leaving 8.4 million in food poverty. Is the system really working?

The system of synthetic based agricultural you are involved in is broken call it regenerative if you like it's still over reliant on energy, so you just fallow pick up your subs, the SFI bailout for the broken system and not feed anyone?
And you say that better than organic, not producing anything? Is thw system really working?

You keep telling me to keep quiet.
This is an open forum as is twitter.


Your state you get no "privileges" over any other member, who's asking the questions to Janet Hughes with the regen arable slant? 🙄
Look forward to the livestock based questions 👍
 

Vader

Member
Mixed Farmer
Even now its not viable if you are talking about fallowing your farm. Is the system really working?

Even with your so called efficient system your still leaving 8.4 million in food poverty. Is the system really working?

The system of synthetic based agricultural you are involved in is broken call it regenerative if you like it's still over reliant on energy, so you just fallow pick up your subs, the SFI bailout for the broken system and not feed anyone?
And you say that better than organic, not producing anything? Is thw system really working?

You keep telling me to keep quiet.
This is an open forum as is twitter.


Your state you get no "privileges" over any other member, who's asking the questions to Janet Hughes with the regen arable slant? 🙄
Look forward to the livestock based questions 👍
Organic dont work perfect mate.
I did it for a dozen years or so.
Plenty of so called organic fert out there and various sorts of chemicals fkr organic.
As there was never enough organic muck about, we could import non organic fym onto the organic land.
Seems plenty of little loop holes on the organic system to try and make it work.

But population is the thing that trumps all.
Organic won't feed the world.
So cut the population or use chem to grow more food.
 
So at what price point for N do you fallow your farm ?

early bought N which seemed expensive at the time now looks cheap, how about selling it on and taking a year out ?


Surely the push should now be to sell at an adjusted price ?

Was talking to the old man whilst he was onto a grain trader.

So what should the adjusted price of Wheat be ? Shouldn't we all be asking for significantly more ?
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Surely the push should now be to sell at an adjusted price ?

Was talking to the old man whilst he was onto a grain trader.

So what should the adjusted price of Wheat be ? Shouldn't we all be asking for significantly more ?

You can't increase food prices, 8.4 million are in food poverty in the UK according to Clive and then he says you have to feed the world.

Bad luck ☹️
 

GeorgeK

Member
Location
Leicestershire
Just face it Clive, your reliance on chemicals has made you realise that your farming system isn't fit for purpose.

The system of synthetic based agricultural you are involved in is broken call it regenerative if you like it's still over reliant on energy
I'm assuming you don't use or rely on diesel then, what with it being a chemical AND an unsustainable source of energy...
 
You can't increase food prices, 8.4 million are in food poverty in the UK according to Clive and then he says you have to feed the world.

Bad luck ☹️


Let's face it. The Environment Agency are totally out of order concerning the spreading of FYM & Biosolids.

Yet all I see is compliance and willingness to bow down to the Green God - sad.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
I think you are a bit wrong there.

Wheat at 20p per loaf isn't expensive. There's more variation in supermarkets on the price of a loaf than the cost of Wheat.

Wheat at 40p per loaf isn't expensive either.
I didn't say you couldn't increase food prices Clive did.

People can't afford it as he drives around in his 60k electric car
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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