Red tractor statement on level playing field

Drillman · Nov 24, 2021

Pesticide testing is a red herring thrown into the mix by folks like Jim Mosley to try and avert attention from the facts.

the Fact is UK grain doesn’t require and doesn’t have pesticide testing done as we can only use UK approved pesticides by law. And in all the years I’ve been a rt member they have never taken a sample of my grain away for a test.

Secondly red tractor are not supporting a level playing field.

If they were all grain that is produced in The UK would be allowed equal access to homes that imported grain is allowed into without on farm audit. Not just feed corn.

All smoke and mirrors at there end I’m afraid folks.

Edit- just on the subject of testing, the vast majority of uk grain will be comprehensively tested by the mill or other destination it goes to anyway. Can anyone prove that imported grain is tested more thoroughly by an end user on a per lorry load basis?

Treg · Nov 24, 2021

Clive said:
Why would being in Red Tractor make HSE or any other agency inspection less likely ?

does RT membership come with some sort of immunity card that you can show anyone with actual legal powers and tell them to sling their hook ? ........ if so. mine must have been lost in the post !

No but it does tell them that your to busy in the office filling forms to have a actual accident

Jackov Altraids · Nov 24, 2021

Out of interest, I know you do not get paid extra for being RT, but how much extra do you get for milling wheat?

UKFM say

"in a normal year, approximately 85% of all wheat used by UK millers is sourced in the UK."

and

"Wheat imported by UK millers is generally more expensive than UK supplies, because of its protein characteristics and high protein content. At end October 2021 AHDB was quoting a delivered price for UK bread wheat in Northamptonshire of £225 per tonne; in the same week, German E wheat – the type mainly imported by millers – was quoted at £265 per tonne, US spring wheat about £300 and Canadian wheat was around £350 per tonne. Not surprisingly, therefore, millers prefer to maximise use of home-grown wheat provided it is of the right technical standard and comes with the necessary level of assurance."

So does everyone having to be RT decrease the milling wheat premium?

SilliamWhale · Nov 24, 2021

Grass And Grain said:
Do they want assured or not? I'm confused

Very strange.

It's slowly crumbling.

And its crumbling because its contradictory. This is the point farmers get so hacked off with.

Barleymow · Nov 24, 2021

Jackov Altraids said:
Out of interest, I know you do not get paid extra for being RT, but how much extra do you get for milling wheat?

UKFM say

"in a normal year, approximately 85% of all wheat used by UK millers is sourced in the UK."

and

"Wheat imported by UK millers is generally more expensive than UK supplies, because of its protein characteristics and high protein content. At end October 2021 AHDB was quoting a delivered price for UK bread wheat in Northamptonshire of £225 per tonne; in the same week, German E wheat – the type mainly imported by millers – was quoted at £265 per tonne, US spring wheat about £300 and Canadian wheat was around £350 per tonne. Not surprisingly, therefore, millers prefer to maximise use of home-grown wheat provided it is of the right technical standard and comes with the necessary level of assurance."

So does everyone having to be RT decrease the milling wheat premium?

Non assured milling wheat £5 ton under feed wheat I was offered

Bury the Trash · Nov 24, 2021

kiwi pom said:
The problem is a lot of livestock farmers depend on competitive feeds like soya and maize gluten to remain profitable.
If cereals farmers had their way and grain was 300 quid a ton with no hope of importing anything, what would happen to the UK livestock industry

This thread is a bout red tractor farm assurance.
my post was as well, it refers to the fact that here , we produce under the 'auspices'

of red tractor farm assurance scheme and produce other countries by enlarge arent.

Im Not sure what your post is all about ref. the op.

Grass And Grain · Nov 24, 2021

Been thinking about this.

RT like to say how good their scheme is. They promote it, and try to convince processors it's absolutely awesome, and everyone should use RT produce.

Now they've come along and they're specifically asking AIC to allow non-RT grain to be allowed into feed mills to be then fed to RT animals.

That's great, but I'm not really certain if RT think grain produced under their scheme rules is fantastic, or no better than non-assured

I shouldn't really poke fun at RT, but just couldn't resist.

Humble Village Farmer · Nov 24, 2021

Has anyone seen the ahdb announcement? Supposed to have been released today.

kiwi pom · Nov 24, 2021

Bury the Trash said:
This thread is a bout red tractor farm assurance.
my post was as well, it refers to the fact that here , we produce under the 'auspices' of red tractor farm assurance scheme and produce other countries by enlarge arent.

Im Not sure what your post is all about ref. the op.

I must have misunderstood yours and Clive's post it sounded like you were complaining about the imports of soya and maize gluten driving down the prices of UK grains.
So this is just about RT? Grain farmers want it gone, so they don't need inspections and don't have to maintain any standards that RT sets over and above the laws of the UK?
Or do you want all imports to meet RT standards the same as you have to?

Old apprentice · Nov 24, 2021

Rt does not make grain any more better than produced to uk law, it just a tick box exersize on the day.

Drillman · Nov 24, 2021

Old apprentice said:
Rt does not make grain any more better than produced to uk law, it just a tick box exersize on the day, which Costs farmers a lot of money for no return.

Fixed that for you

kiwi pom · Nov 24, 2021

Drillman said:
Fixed that for you

I know I've asked this before but how much money?
I hope it goes, I really do but I don't see your buyers, processors and retailers just saying "ok we'll leave them to it" are you not a little worried about what will replace it?

tullah · Nov 24, 2021

If RT didn't exist it would make no difference to demand and prices. It would be take it or leave it. And we are not far off that scenario now.

SilliamWhale · Nov 24, 2021

kiwi pom said:
I know I've asked this before but how much money?
I hope it goes, I really do but I don't see your buyers, processors and retailers just saying "ok we'll leave them to it" are you not a little worried about what will replace it?

But we are not being left to it, we are regulated by law. We also professionals, out business' viability depend on us being so.

And our regulations appear to be stronger than imported produce regulations.

Bury the Trash · Nov 24, 2021

kiwi pom said:
I must have misunderstood yours and Clive's post it sounded like you were complaining about the imports of soya and maize gluten driving down the prices of UK grains.
So this is just about RT? Grain farmers want it gone, so they don't need inspections and don't have to maintain any standards that RT sets over and above the laws of the UK?
Or do you want all imports to meet RT standards the same as you have to?

actually all i want is a can of lager and a cheese and pickle sandwich sitting by the logburner reading a good book.
i'm rapidly growing tired of just about everything.

"People are there own worst enemies."

come to think of it Ill put the book down for an hour because the last episode of Shetland is on.

Steevo · Nov 24, 2021

Jackov Altraids said:
Out of interest, I know you do not get paid extra for being RT, but how much extra do you get for milling wheat?

UKFM say

"in a normal year, approximately 85% of all wheat used by UK millers is sourced in the UK."

and

"Wheat imported by UK millers is generally more expensive than UK supplies, because of its protein characteristics and high protein content. At end October 2021 AHDB was quoting a delivered price for UK bread wheat in Northamptonshire of £225 per tonne; in the same week, German E wheat – the type mainly imported by millers – was quoted at £265 per tonne, US spring wheat about £300 and Canadian wheat was around £350 per tonne. Not surprisingly, therefore, millers prefer to maximise use of home-grown wheat provided it is of the right technical standard and comes with the necessary level of assurance."

So does everyone having to be RT decrease the milling wheat premium?

The Canadian wheat mentioned is a different type of wheat - it's not the same as we grow here. It yields less but is a higher protein and a different spec, and costs more per tonne to grow. Not comparing apples with apples, it's more smoke and mirrors imo.

Added to that - it's complicated the issue converting everything to £ because that allows exchange rate skew which could also be distorting the figures.

Jackov Altraids · Nov 24, 2021

Steevo said:
The Canadian wheat mentioned is a different type of wheat - it's not the same as we grow here. It yields less but is a higher protein and a different spec, and costs more per tonne to grow. Not comparing apples with apples, it's more smoke and mirrors imo.

Added to that - it's complicated the issue converting everything to £ because that allows exchange rate skew which could also be distorting the figures.

I'm asking questions because I have no knowledge of arable or grain trading.

They said "millers prefer to maximise use of home-grown wheat provided it is of the right technical standard" which implies an equivalent standard.

From what I've read, all UK grain in mills has to be RT. All grain is tested. Therefore any grain meeting milling requirements can be used as such.
Surely this in itself depresses the price of milling wheat.

It also seems possible that a mill could 'lose' the provenance of a pile of wheat, assess it as 'of unknown origin' and pass it as assured subject to necessary testing.

kiwi pom · Nov 25, 2021

SilliamWhale said:
But we are not being left to it, we are regulated by law. We also professionals, out business' viability depend on us being so.

And our regulations appear to be stronger than imported produce regulations.

Yes the law applies but who checks if there's no RT audit?
Lets face it a lot more farms got away with a lot more dodgy s**t before RT than they did with it (I used to work for one of them)

Anyway I just find it interesting that the group of farmers that have the easiest time with RT and regulations are the group kicking up the most fuss.
I don't see your buyers being comfortable with no assurance but maybe I'm wrong.
Can you compete on price with imported feed wheat and barley?

Kiwi Pete · Nov 25, 2021

SilliamWhale said:
But we are not being left to it, we are regulated by law. We also professionals, out business' viability depend on us being so.

And our regulations appear to be stronger than imported produce regulations.

Exactly

Why, though, question has to be asked - why should/are people [so strongly] in need of laws and rules and regulations?
Why do we need a God?

What's actually at the root of it, why is it that we can't be self-regulating?

That's why I have issues with being defined or restricted by things other than natural laws (eg gravity, how much rain we get) and my own "rules and regulations" which are more fit for purpose than anything anyone can reasonably pass as law

thus I don't "get" why more restrictive rules would/could ever equate to better produce exiting the farm, and so how can it improve what exits the supermarket?

I reckon that the only real need for any of these "rules of engagement" are because we unwittingly replaced communication with rules of engagement

Bury the Trash · Nov 25, 2021

Kiwi Pete said:
Exactly

Why, though, question has to be asked - why should/are people [so strongly] in need of laws and rules and regulations?
Why do we need a God?

What's actually at the root of it, why is it that we can't be self-regulating?

That's why I have issues with being defined or restricted by things other than natural laws (eg gravity, how much rain we get) and my own "rules and regulations" which are more fit for purpose than anything anyone can reasonably pass as law

thus I don't "get" why more restrictive rules would/could ever equate to better produce exiting the farm, and so how can it improve what exits the supermarket?

I reckon that the only real need for any of these "rules of engagement" are because we unwittingly replaced communication with rules of engagement

yes i agree.
but for the bit about communication, well that's a 2 way street and what if one party doesn't want to listen and only have their own skewed (and possibly by the way the have been brought up? ) interests ??

Red tractor statement on level playing field

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