Dispatches - Red Tractor

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
We had 30 free range layers in a hut though.

The percentage losses were no worse on that programme as those we experienced small scale with chicks under a heat lamp. I’d say the conditions in that big shed were as good if not better than traditional small scale production. You can’t even let them outdoors even if you wanted to due to avian flu restrictions so the big automatic shed is the only practical way forward other than for niche specialty poultry.
For me the set up looked it couldn’t really be bettered.
You'd hope they were many times better - high volume small margin production means that small percentage gains/losses have a big impact on the bottom line.

I know that with a table top hatcher, I might get 60% hatch rate (it was a rubbish one mind, certainly with respect to controlling humidity/manual turning). We were at 90%+ at Faccenda.
 

Hindsight

Member
Location
Lincolnshire
Even without that - how can they tell the nutrient hasn't come from all the sewage going into the Wye?

Can't. Phosphate and Nitrogen not be marked to allow accurate source tracing - hence the problem with diffuse pollution. The issue will be part Agricultural source part Sewage source. So a component from sewage will still make up the total. My comment was made as a constructive comment about resolving a situation that looks as though could get out of control whereby the Chicken industry is closed off. By reducing the amount of litter returned to land would provide a solution. Regardless of is it farmers or water companies at fault there appears a drive by government to 'do something', and rightly or wrongly one of those targets will be farmers and agriculture. Accept some responsibility and provide a solution - burning in a power station may be such a route.
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
What’s wrong with applying broiler litter? Surely it’s only over applying, or applying in the wrong conditions, that create an issue, the same as with any other manures?

Plenty of the chicken units round here have been putting too much on, which they get away with for a while, before it starts to cause issues.
Isn't this why they only want to have muck and slurry spread in the growing season, which seems to have offended so many farmers?

Maybe watching this will help those not convinced about the autumn muck spreading ban, to see the reasoning behind it: it gets into the water course causing pollution, making it no longer available to the crops it is meant for. A kind of expensive and unnecessary way of pouring money down the drain.
 
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Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Isn't this why they only want to have muck and slurry spread in the growing season, which seems to have offended so many farmers?

Maybe watching this will help those not convinced about the autumn muck spreading ban, to see the reasoning behind the tightening up of the rules: it gets into the water course causing pollution, making it no longer available to the crops it is meant for. A kind of expensive and unnecessary way of pouring money down the drain.

It is location, weather and crop that dictates growing seasons, not a calender.
A policy based on reality may not offend.
I don't believe any farmer has ever intentionally polluted a watercourse.
Water companies do on a regular basis.
 

texelburger

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Herefordshire
I don’t think,they have a lot to do with it really - all the farmer officers in the NFU are just pawns for the full time paid staff a Stoneligh who are protecting their £ 21 mil a year existence,

The NFU’s has many none farmer members, retailers, processor, input suppliers etc. - how can any organisation successfully represent both sides of their membership without serious conflict of interest ?

They do as they are told to get elected into the next job and live in hope of New Years honours, they represent themselves imo far more than they do the average farner member
It really is a sad fact that all farmer positions, within the NFU,from branch to National level are just pawns to give the effect of representing the farming community. In reality the NFU is controlled by its corporate members and employed staff.The voting system of electing people somewhat confirms this.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
It really is a sad fact that all farmer positions, within the NFU,from branch to National level are just pawns to give the effect of representing the farming community. In reality the NFU is controlled by its corporate members and employed staff.The voting system of electing people somewhat confirms this.

yes - unless it changes to one member one vote (for which there is no good argument agasit). it will never represent the majority of farmers

It will never change that though as it would turn things completely on its head

The more I learn I think the sit com "Yes Minister" is a actual a factual documentary about how it really works !
 
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Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
It is location, weather and crop that dictates growing seasons, not a calender.
A policy based on reality may not offend.
I don't believe any farmer has ever intentionally polluted a watercourse.
Water companies do on a regular basis.
I agree, but we are better than the water companies. And generally plants don't really grow much in the winter.

Actually I think quite a lot of farmers know it's not best practice to spread muck in the autumn but it suits them to do it so they carry on. It's quite a big policy change to implement but quite well illustrated on last night's programme.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
What was your crime, suggesting that a tweed jacket and the tie of one's old Ag college shouldn't be essential attire for the duration of the conference?

Joe Stanley and me didn't really quite see eye to eye 🤣 I think I mentioned something about a brown stain on his nose

Maybe he will speak to me again when he is NFU president or Sir Joe one day ?
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
What’s wrong with applying broiler litter? Surely it’s only over applying, or applying in the wrong conditions, that create an issue, the same as with any other manures?

Plenty of the chicken units round here have been putting too much on, which they get away with for a while, before it starts to cause issues.
Might that be a consequence of these units being too big for the farm they're on? I haven't watched the prog yet so am just curious. There are a vast number of areas and industries where growing too big is yielding even bigger problems......
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
Isn't this why they only want to have muck and slurry spread in the growing season, which seems to have offended so many farmers?

Maybe watching this will help those not convinced about the autumn muck spreading ban, to see the reasoning behind the tightening up of the rules: it gets into the water course causing pollution, making it no longer available to the crops it is meant for. A kind of expensive and unnecessary way of pouring money down the drain.
What is ‘the growing season’. Here on the West Coast we have little frost and some years every month is in the ‘growing season. Grass is still growing fast here now, although the wind knocked it back a bit, and many thousands of cows and young stock are still out grazing. Half my herd are grazing during the day and they will soon be housed to be replaced by tack sheep until the end of February, by which time they will hopefully have eaten back the grass a bit. Not too much this year though, what with the price of fertiliser.
 

snarling bee

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
If the NFU was a truly representative organisation then RT would have been kept in check and would still focus in our case on grain safety. That hasn’t happened as far as can see. It’s just a mutual back slapping club.
So who do you think kept RT 'in check' with the new V5 standards? It was as much the NFU as the general consultation replies, and the NFU reps fought heard to get the RT boards to see sense.
You're a bit like Channel 4 - you have your own agenda so will ignore the truth for the sake of a good story/comment.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I agree, but we are better than the water companies. And generally plants don't really grow much in the winter.

Actually I think quite a lot of farmers know it's not best practice to spread muck in the autumn but it suits them to do it so they carry on. It's quite a big policy change to implement but quite well illustrated on last night's programme.
It depends on where you are and on how hard the Winter is. We’ve had several Winters here this century where the grass has not stopped growing and several more where March was the only month where it really didn’t grow at all and turned a very pale green in the cold and wind.
 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
So who do you think kept RT 'in check' with the new V5 standards? It was as much the NFU as the general consultation replies, and the NFU reps fought heard to get the RT boards to see sense.
You're a bit like Channel 4 - you have your own agenda so will ignore the truth for the sake of a good story/comment.
I didn't know RT had been kept in check. It's a law unto its self serving self
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
I agree, but we are better than the water companies. And generally plants don't really grow much in the winter.

Actually I think quite a lot of farmers know it's not best practice to spread muck in the autumn but it suits them to do it so they carry on. It's quite a big policy change to implement but quite well illustrated on last night's programme.

You seem to be declaring that as a fact when I don't believe that is an absolute truth.

In my experience, the uptake in autumn is often better than any other time of year, not least because of grasses being 'exhausted' at the end of the 'prime growing season'.
I'm sure research would show that the autumn is the best time for microbes to breakdown and use organic matter, it certainly gets incorporated into the soil at its quickest in the autumn.

There are many variables, but I am still adamant that the date is the least significant of them.
 
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Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
So who do you think kept RT 'in check' with the new V5 standards? It was as much the NFU as the general consultation replies, and the NFU reps fought heard to get the RT boards to see sense.
You're a bit like Channel 4 - you have your own agenda so will ignore the truth for the sake of a good story/comment.
What about those of us NFU non-members who filled in the consultation document?
Didn’t we count?

I suspect that if the NFU had its way, then no - we didn’t!
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
So who do you think kept RT 'in check' with the new V5 standards? It was as much the NFU as the general consultation replies, and the NFU reps fought heard to get the RT boards to see sense.
You're a bit like Channel 4 - you have your own agenda so will ignore the truth for the sake of a good story/comment.

The NFU didn't help at all - they support RT ...... ask them to state otherwise publicly ?

RT pulled back the charges because they could see a sh!t storm brewing on social media, if farmers hadn't represented themselves all that gold plate would be in force today
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Might that be a consequence of these units being too big for the farm they're on? I haven't watched the prog yet so am just curious. There are a vast number of areas and industries where growing too big is yielding even bigger problems......

That's all covered in the planning applications submitted before they are built. They have to show how they are going to manage the manure produced which, if they don't have enough land of their own, usually involves exporting it. The problem comes when that exporting doesn't happen.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 65 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.1%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 6 3.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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