- Location
- West Suffolk
The Beavers will like it.
AHDB can feck right off.
- Thread starter delilah
- Start date
The Beavers will like it.
oil barron
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Exactly. It should be about the benefits of a balanced diet. All that advert has done is give the local loons something new to worry about when they see someone ploughing while at the same time munching on their soy latte that was grown in scorched earth rain Forrest in Orangutan tears.
SilliamWhale
Member
No I think your probably bring oversensitive there. I dont think it will lead to local loons worried about ploughing.
I'm a no tiller through and through but it's not for everyone.
oil barron
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I have had a couple of loons at work ask if we plough on our farm after watching some sh1tty Netflix documentary
SilliamWhale
Member
Well tell em. There's good reasons not to plough and for others good reasons to plough
oil barron
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I do. But why would the agricultural development board that we pay levies too actively work against our business feeding more miss information to the loons
Compare and contrast:
We Eat Balanced fb page as per the OP, and the Veganuary fb page.
Ignore the content, just look at the effort that goes into it, the regular posts, the number of followers it has garnered and the number of shares of posts.
Why are we so bad at this ? Do we just take the cheapest quote whenever employing PR firms ? Do we actually have people working at the AHDB capable of thinking this stuff through, making sure that what we are doing is promoting all producers equally ?
We Eat Balanced fb page as per the OP, and the Veganuary fb page.
Ignore the content, just look at the effort that goes into it, the regular posts, the number of followers it has garnered and the number of shares of posts.
Why are we so bad at this ? Do we just take the cheapest quote whenever employing PR firms ? Do we actually have people working at the AHDB capable of thinking this stuff through, making sure that what we are doing is promoting all producers equally ?
JohnGalway
Member
- Location
- Connemara, Ireland
Plough up the soil and open the organic matter to oxygen, bacteria flourish and consume that om. In addition, the cultivation destroys the soil fungi which is a great store of carbon, bacteria will also consume that.
The difference between bacteria and fungi is, bacteria blow off 80% of the carbon they encounter, as they can only use about 20%. Fungi are almost direct opposite in sequestering 80%, but they can't stand the disturbance.
oil barron
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Well, at least you didn’t say that ploughing oxidizes the carbon.
Bacteria are living creatures that take in oxygen and food and expel CO2 just like us. But by doing that they break down the organic compounds into nutrients that the plants can use to grow. Most notably nitrogen. Direct drillers like that bacteria as much as ploughers do. It’s what makes the soil alive.
certain types of fungi block the bacterial progress so the rate of decomposition is slower. That’s why you see in woodlands stuff breaking down really slowly. If you have a soil like that it is not going to grow crops very well.
In order to lock up carbon you need to generate carbon. It comes from the routes of the living plants. So the better plants you grow the more carbon you are putting into the soil. When you see a patchy as fck DD field with scorched earth over half of it where nothing is growing it ain’t sequestering any carbon.
if you read the data, the main difference between ploughing and DD for carbon sequestration is in erosion of the soil. As long as you don’t have erosion there is no difference.
They’re so good at it because they are heavily invested in it and see massive potential profits, those representing us don’t have the direction or the motivation or the budget.
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
I doubt AHDB are able to organise the whole advertising schedule on the budget we give them.
There will be lots of ads for plant based stuff, from manufacturers looking to cash in on the Veganuary fad.
JohnGalway
Member
- Location
- Connemara, Ireland
Where in my posts did you read me making an argument for one type of cultivation over another?
Ploughing releases carbon from the soil by the method I explained in a previous post. What was on the blurb is entirely correct.
"It's what makes the soil alive", well, no, it's not.
You are making an argument for one type of cultivation over another, when I'm talking about something completely different.
oil barron
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
The blurb didn’t say that ploughing releases carbon. It said that in order to lock up carbon they had stopped ploughing. If your DD soil is healthy with bacteria working as it should and not tight as a brick with no oxygen getting to the routes then it will be releasing carbon as well so the blurb is not correct.
JohnGalway
Member
- Location
- Connemara, Ireland
There you go again, ploughing vs DD, sorry but it's not an argument I'm a part of.
Ploughing releases carbon, it's just how it works, like water being wet.
Bacteria are only part of the story when it comes to having well structured soil. There's a lot more going on down there.
I know, it just seemed ironic.I doubt AHDB are able to organise the whole advertising schedule on the budget we give them.
There will be lots of ads for plant based stuff, from manufacturers looking to cash in on the Veganuary fad.
On the bright side, reduced clearance sections in supermarkets are often full of plant based vegan meat products.
oil barron
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I’m really not trying to say Ploughing is the only way to go. I’m saying the blurb stated that by not ploughing you are locking up carbon. Which is not true, healthy soil in DD has bacteria working and releasing CO2 aswell. The difference in how much carbon you are addiing net overall is dependent on how good your crops are and your rotation.
Trying to say that by not ploughing your soil is not breathing is just not true. The only way to truly lock up organic matter is to deep plough it down to where the oxygen cannot get to it, which would not really be a good idea.
JohnGalway
Member
- Location
- Connemara, Ireland
Again, I will have to side with the blurb being accurate. When you plough you kill off your fungi as they can't deal with the disturbance. While also exposing a much larger area of organic matter to bacteria than previously available to them. This is a food resource for them, they prosper and reproduce, merrily blowing off 80% of that carbon as CO2 simply because it's too much for their needs.
When your plant takes in carbon in the form of atmospheric co2, it uses part of this to make root exudates to attract & feed micro organisms. Fungi, one of those micro organisms, can not only store this carbon for hundreds of years, but they also reproduce and grow. By not disturbing (killing) them, the carbon stays put in soil - after a fashion in the nutrient cycle at least.
I've not said that soil doesn't respire or breathe. Quite the opposite, bacteria will make micro aggregates, which fungi will draw together to create macro aggregates. There are other actors in soil that move the deckchairs (aggregates) around including but not exclusively earthworms. All that lends to a healthy soil in which air, water, and roots move more easily.
(You don't need rotations either - if your soil is healthy enough, but I feel that's a whole other level of heresy I'm not sure I want to broach or deal with right now
)So deep ploughing = deeper damage.
It's not a moral judgement against ploughing on my behalf, it's just that water is wet
oil barron
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
I’ve heard these arguments before. I feel that they contradict themselves in that ploughing introduces more air which causes the bacteria to work faster breaking down the organic matter. But a healthy DD soil allows air and water to move around more freely which …..Again, I will have to side with the blurb being accurate. When you plough you kill off your fungi as they can't deal with the disturbance. While also exposing a much larger area of organic matter to bacteria than previously available to them. This is a food resource for them, they prosper and reproduce, merrily blowing off 80% of that carbon as CO2 simply because it's too much for their needs.
When your plant takes in carbon in the form of atmospheric co2, it uses part of this to make root exudates to attract & feed micro organisms. Fungi, one of those micro organisms, can not only store this carbon for hundreds of years, but they also reproduce and grow. By not disturbing (killing) them, the carbon stays put in soil - after a fashion in the nutrient cycle at least.
I've not said that soil doesn't respire or breathe. Quite the opposite, bacteria will make micro aggregates, which fungi will draw together to create macro aggregates. There are other actors in soil that move the deckchairs (aggregates) around including but not exclusively earthworms. All that lends to a healthy soil in which air, water, and roots move more easily.
(You don't need rotations either - if your soil is healthy enough, but I feel that's a whole other level of heresy I'm not sure I want to broach or deal with right now
So deep ploughing = deeper damage.
It's not a moral judgement against ploughing on my behalf, it's just that water is wet
This is backed up most of the empirical studies which show that over the full soil profile there is no difference in percentage organic matter for long term DD or ploughed land in an arable rotation.
if you take permanent pasture and plough it for continuous wheat for 5 years it is going to reduce the organic matter content. If you spray off the pasture with roundup and DD continuous wheat for 5 years it will reduce the organic matter content.
- Location
- NSW, Newstralya
look at about 1.10
Don’t try & educate people - they hate being “lectured” to
Make ‘em laugh
- Location
- West Suffolk
look at about 1.10
Don’t try & educate people - they hate being “lectured” to
Make ‘em laugh
And there was me thinking all lamb comes from NZ
