Public Accounts Committee enquiry into ELMS

delilah

Member
the Government is required to do a formal written response to the recommendations, which the Committee will then normally publish. This process takes a couple of months, normally, to come to fruition.

So when the PAC put a time-frame on its recommendations, with one being in 20 days time, another one being 48 days time, they knew that they were wasting their breath ? All seems a bit lax to me. If we get anything so much as a day late in submitting to Government there is hell to pay.
 

delilah

Member
you couldn't get paid twice to do the same thing on the same piece of land

Unless you are a quango.
You have said that NE can claim ELMS, even though they are already under statutory obligation - and funded by the taxpayer - to maintain NNR's and the like.
Yet when we asked if we could apply for HLS on NNR ground we were grazing, we were told no as it would be 'double funding' .
When did the rules change ?
 

andybk

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Mendips Somerset
So when the PAC put a time-frame on its recommendations, with one being in 20 days time, another one being 48 days time, they knew that they were wasting their breath ? All seems a bit lax to me. If we get anything so much as a day late in submitting to Government there is hell to pay.
usually financially ,

regard your other post , defra needs to understand that we need assurances that funding is not just another capital stream for the charities ,
as you have alluded to, it does seem what this is . hence the levels of funding and caps levels.
long term we need to be careful any money is not syphoned away to pay yet more lobbyists to further enhance their pot ,at the cost to food production
 
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Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
Really needs a constituent of his to do so. Whenever you email an MP they ask you to use a postcode checker or somesuch as a filter to check that you are worthy of their attention, which is fair enough I guess. Must be folks on here farming in his constituency.
I think you can write to any MP you like

You should always contact your local MP about your case or about an issue you would like to be raised at Parliament.

If you wish to find out which MPs take a special interest in a particular topic or campaign you could:

 

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
Wonder if they'll allow SW6 to tick the box for SFI Intermediate level cover crops?

Seem to think Janet said they won't pay for things twice if already funded from stewardship??? Haven't read any detail about the rules on this one.

Would the existing SW6 tick the SFI box, or would the SFI cover crop need to be additional? If they are saying they won't fund things twice, then I'm guessing the SW6 won't count for the SFI requirement???
I don't know how it works, especially when a farm what might be in two or more different schemes. Maybe once it's only elms after cs has gone it might be simpler.

If they will only pay for one scheme, it's a case of which one pays the most and working out the cost.
 

delilah

Member
I think you can write to any MP you like

For sure, but as said, when you do so you just get the autoreply as per the one from Sir Geoffrey this morning.

Due to parliamentary protocol MPs can only take up matters on behalf of their own constituents. Please ensure that you have included your full name and address with your email if you want a response.

He is MP for The Cotswolds, countless farms in his constituency, there must be several on here, someone needs to get him out on farm and thrash this out, you would hope it has happened already.
 
I don't know how it works, especially when a farm what might be in two or more different schemes. Maybe once it's only elms after cs has gone it might be simpler.

If they will only pay for one scheme, it's a case of which one pays the most and working out the cost.
Yes, it will be simpler once we have rolled out ELM and that's the only set of schemes - in the meantime, you can have more than one scheme on the same patch of land, you just can't be paid twice for doing the same actions on the same patch of land, or get paid to do actions that are contradictory. For example, you could have a CS hedgerow or flower margin option and SFI soil option on the same parcel.
 
For Landscape Recovery, you have imposed a lower cap by saying that the bid has to be for a minimum of 500 Ha.

A number of posters on here have suggested that there should be an upper cap on some SFI options. To give a random example, a payment of £220/Ha for permanent pasture for the first 40 Ha.

You have said that Defra will not consider an upper cap on SFI options. I am trying to find out why that is. Why is there merit in a lower cap for LR, but not in an upper cap for the SFI ?

I know that you will respond by saying that the reason for the lower cap on LR is that it needs to be at scale for the objectives (eg rewilding) to be met. That isn't what I am asking. What I am asking is that if reasons exist for an upper cap on SFI options - and there are many - why can't you implement them ? Is it a political decision that has been made ? Or a procedural decision under your jurisdiction ?
Do you mean a higher rate of payment for the first x hectares? Or a cap on the total amount of money someone can get through SFI (sorry I'm not being deliberately awkward, I'm just trying to understand exactly where you're coming from so I can answer the question in a useful way)
 

Raider112

Member
For sure, but as said, when you do so you just get the autoreply as per the one from Sir Geoffrey this morning.

Due to parliamentary protocol MPs can only take up matters on behalf of their own constituents. Please ensure that you have included your full name and address with your email if you want a response.

He is MP for The Cotswolds, countless farms in his constituency, there must be several on here, someone needs to get him out on farm and thrash this out, you would hope it has happened already.
Exactly this, I emailed my MP last night and got this reply. I don't know if it's any different for cabinet ministers if you are asking something relevant to their office but for a normal MP at least it has to a constituent.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
Yes, this. Not, necessarily across the board, but rather on any specific options within the SFI where merit was seen in such a tailoring of the rate.

(please don't apologize, your head must hurt with all this :ROFLMAO: )
I’m sure it wouldn’t be just @Janet Hughes Defra ‘s head that is hurting re all these issues.
I bet I’m not the only one getting more and more confused either.

As for those who aren’t reading these ELMs threads or even members of TFF, are they are living in blissful ignorance, in for one hell of a shock or sensible enough to wait until it is all sorted into some sort sensible reality?

I remember when IACS changed into SPS. There were all sorts of stupid, unworkable scenarios being talked about at various Government Guidelines meetings held all over the country about it. Eventually, most of them got dumped in the 59th minute of the last hour before it actually started and we ended up with a workable system.
I suspect the same thing will happen before ELMs proper starts rather than the appalling small take up of the pilot schemes, which sort of says it all really, doesn’t it?
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
I’m sure it wouldn’t be just @Janet Hughes Defra ‘s head that is hurting re all these issues.
I bet I’m not the only one getting more and more confused either.

As for those who aren’t reading these ELMs threads or even members of TFF, are they are living in blissful ignorance, in for one hell of a shock or sensible enough to wait until it is all sorted into some sort sensible reality?

I remember when IACS changed into SPS. There were all sorts of stupid, unworkable scenarios being talked about at various Government Guidelines meetings held all over the country about it. Eventually, most of them got dumped in the 59th minute of the last hour before it actually started and we ended up with a workable system.
I suspect the same thing will happen before ELMs proper starts rather than the appalling small take up of the pilot schemes, which sort of says it all really, doesn’t it?
I remember Michael Gove’s 2018 Oxford Farming Conference speech, in which he mentioned ‘Public Good’ for the first time. He also said that he wanted to create a simple enough system that “ Any farmer, any farmer can start his annual claim after breakfast and finish it by 6 o’clock, when he can have a well deserved pint!”
Do you still envisage this going to be able to happen, @Janet Hughes Defra ?
 
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Hi @Janet Hughes Defra I may have missed this somewhere and I don't need to tell you how hard it is to keep up with the various threads!

Could you clarify who the "delivery partners" are please?

Thanks
Hi - I feel your pain on keeping up with the threads, I feel like I am woefully failing on that front despite best efforts!

The delivery partners (sorry for using unhelpful jargon) are the RPA, who administer schemes, and also Natural England, Forestry Commission and Environment Agency who provide expert input to scheme design (along with farmers, stakeholders and other experts) and have a role in providing statutory advice (and other functions) eg in respect of SSSI sites, woodland creation and maintenance, and watercourse protection
 
I remember Michael Gove’s 2018 Oxford Farming Conference speech, in which he mentioned ‘Public Good’ for the first time. He also said that he wanted to create a simple enough system that “ Any farmer, any farmer can start his annual claim after breakfast and finish it by 6 o’clock, when he can have a well deserved pint!”
Do you still in visage this going to be able to happen, @Janet Hughes Defra ?
Yes, that is absolutely still what we're working to deliver
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
I remember Michael Gove’s 2018 Oxford Farming Conference speech, in which he mentioned ‘Public Good’ for the first time. He also said that he wanted to create a simple enough system that “ Any farmer, any farmer can start his annual claim after breakfast and finish it by 6 o’clock, when he can have a well deserved pint!”
Do you still in visage this going to be able to happen, @Janet Hughes Defra ?

Wow! If "any farmer" can be done by 6 o'clock then I reckon I've a good chance of being done well before lunch! 😂

That said, it's lookling very likely indeed that I'll be done before breakfast......
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Yes, that is absolutely still what we're working to deliver
you need to start simplifying it all then and when you have made it very simple you can up the payment rates using the administration money that will be saved by getting rid of half of DEFRA and RPA, might be an idea to do the same with NE, FC and EA as well while your at it then we may be able to afford a pension to enjoy while you enjoy yours. :whistle:
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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