Petition to reform the new landscape schemes

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
i think the solution maybe to make sfi / css etc only claimable by an active farm business ……….. BUT after tightening up this definition to avoid sham contract farming etc ……. something along the lines of at least 50% your income must come from farming for example
Too complicated and beatable to protect tenants
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
As an individual, or as the farming company that is farming a particular block of land?
It’s impossible to make it so that there can’t be ways round it tbh.


it maybe complex but i’m sure there are better ways to define a “farmer” than we have right now

it could be done if HMRC / DEFRA were minded to i’m sure

“Farmer” is a tax and subsidy title of convenience for far to many wealthy individuals and organisations and this has seriously damaged real farmers for far to long now
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Anything would be better than the leaky definitions they have now, but most ‘active farmer’ definitions could be worked around with a bit of paper restructuring tbh.


its not simple i agree but surely possible?

how would Dyson or Ed Shearan for example be able to show the majority or even significant % of his income came from farming ?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
its not simple i agree but surely possible?

how would Dyson or Ed Shearan for example be able to show the majority or even significant % of his income came from farming ?

Surely Mr Dyson isn’t the one earning from the farming operation though? Beeswax Farming Ltd will be the recipient of Ag funding, with Mr Dyson being a director of that company being paid a dividend (or not). Beeswax Farming Ltd will have all of their income coming from operating the farms (& AD, etc).
The same set up will, or could, apply to Sheeran or anyone else.
 

YorkshireTom25

Member
Arable Farmer
yes it does …….. you may not want to but you can sell it ! or leverage it to borrow against / take dividends (rent) from


inheritance land owners are certainly more wealthy than most people who don’t inherit land !
What do you achieve from selling it? Its my livelihood, give the tax man a lump of it?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Surely Mr Dyson isn’t the one earning from the farming operation though? Beeswax Farming Ltd will be the recipient of Ag funding, with Mr Dyson being a director of that company being paid a dividend (or not). Beeswax Farming Ltd will have all of their income coming from operating the farms (& AD, etc).
The same set up will, or could, apply to Sheeran or anyone else.


im sure mr Dyson will be a farmer when hos children get his IHT bill ?

there must surely be ways to ensure sub and tax breaks reward genuine farmers (ie people dependent upon food production to live) and not people who just invest in land or have more significant other income
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
What do you achieve from selling it? Its my livelihood, give the tax man a lump of it?

sell it and you are not poor …… even after paying tax

landownership is an investment choice and as its valuable stuff investors are wealthy by definition

anyone owning 100ac of land around here is comfortably a millionaire…….. most would agree you are wealthy if you are a millionaire and certainly not think you needed state benefits from tax payers

in fact just 50 -60 acres (locally to me) puts you in the uK’s top 1%

B68281BD-724E-4052-B571-C2353D733462.png



average savings in the UK doesn’t even buy an acre

C8002FA0-D882-48D5-9C3B-3DD7C2B7433B.png
 
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YorkshireTom25

Member
Arable Farmer
Thats because you live in England where every well meaning eu farm support was tapered away from the farmer to make its way way into the landlords pocket !!
The SFP on stacked entilements stayed with me and any of my landlords who refused to take a rent haircut were told to shove it up their arses ....
The establishment always looked after the Dukes and Crooks down through the ages .
Mores the pity your forefathers didnt hang the lot of them and burn and sack the estates and take and divide the land for themselves .:devil::devil:T
Thats the sort of "rewilding " that would tighten the shite in Goldsmith ...:sneaky::sneaky::sneaky:.
Apparently in the U.K the only country taking away our payments is England!
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
im sure mr Dyson will be a farmer when hos children get his IHT bill ?

there must surely be ways to ensure sub and tax breaks reward genuine farmers (ie people dependent upon food production to live) and not people who just invest in land or have more significant other income

One would hope so, but I can’t think of a system that couldn’t be got round with a bit of creative paperwork and intelligent thinking.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
What do you achieve from selling it? Its my livelihood, give the tax man a lump of it?

I agree, but @Clive ‘s point is still valid. It’s ultimately your choice not to liquidate that asset, or borrow against it. You are ultimately ‘wealthy’, even if it’s not a liquid asset.

Our dear Prince Andrew looks to be struggling for cash at the moment, and scrabbling round to sell his Swiss chalet. Does that mean he’s not wealthy?
 

YorkshireTom25

Member
Arable Farmer
sell it and you are not poor …… even after paying tax

landownership is an investment choice and as its valuable stuff investors are wealthy by definition

anyone owning 100ac of land around here is comfortably a millionaire…….. most would agree you are wealthy if you are a millionaire and certainly not think you needed state benefits from tax payers
I can’t understand you somehow.
 

Cowcorn

Member
Mixed Farmer
its not simple i agree but surely possible?

how would Dyson or Ed Shearan for example be able to show the majority or even significant % of his income came from farming ?
Yes of course its possible !! Where theres a will theres a way ..
Just need the political commitment to implement a fair scheme .
Whatever about rewilding Boris might be facing rehousing if he hits any more banana skins!!!
 

midlandslad

Member
Location
Midlands
If you have a family farm you are wealthy, you may be cash poor but ultimately like Clive says the farm could be sold or borrowed against to invest into assets to generate cash.

far too many farmers just carry on doing what they have always done. We’ll change is coming and it is coming fast.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 78 42.9%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 63 34.6%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.5%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 5 2.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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