Excellent article about rewilding

wanton dwarf · Jan 23, 2022

ajd132 said:
It is optional.

Oh yeah ? Since when is the spending of our Tax on Left Wing Woke ideology "Optional".

The pretense the FK whit Environmentalists won't tax the hell out of everyone is cute but dumb.

I'd also point out that the Ukraine can grow Oilseed Rape using banned Insecticides - 'cos of Bees - but it gets imported into the Uk by the millions of tonnes. Not much "Optional" there.

Or how about banned Herbicides in Canada being used ? And our dear "Red Tractor" waving in imports as higher quality ?

7610 super q · Jan 23, 2022

Thing is, the likes of RSPB and NT have single aims, and can muster professional folks to lobby DEFRA.
NFU have done fudge all, but how can they with so many different aims ? No till vs proper farming, Small scale vs large scale, Arable vs livestock, Organic vs Conventional.
We just can't muster a united front. And it'll cost us.

Courier · Jan 23, 2022

wanton dwarf said:
IF the loonies were interested in "Sequestering Carbon" they'd be ensuring trees planted were used in the Construction industry.

In fact they'd have stopped Amazonian Rainforest dectruction decades ago,.

It's a con.

It's all about punishing one group of workers so the Super Rich can make a killing on imports and in the future Contruction Land.

Environmentalism = Bollox.

And the environmentalists wet dream “Miscanthus” which is a perennial crop and lasts for 20 + years without needing to disturb the ground, needs no routine fertiliser and sequesters carbon at a rate of 2.35 tonnes per Ha per year after the crop is taken for biomass doesn’t even get considered by Defra. ….!

Barleycorn · Jan 23, 2022

Courier said:
And the environmentalists wet dream “Miscanthus” which is a perennial crop and lasts for 20 + years without needing to disturb the ground, needs no routine fertiliser and sequesters carbon at a rate of 2.35 tonnes per Ha per year after the crop is taken for biomass doesn’t even get considered by Defra. ….!

Interesting but how much carbon is left in the soil and how much is lost when it is harvested/burnt?

Courier · Jan 23, 2022

Barleycorn said:
Interesting but how much carbon is left in the soil and how much is lost when it is harvested/burnt?

2.35 tonnes per Ha is the accepted figure within the rhizomes and soil.

Humble Village Farmer · Jan 23, 2022

wanton dwarf said:
Oh yeah ? Since when is the spending of our Tax on Left Wing Woke ideology "Optional".

The pretense the FK whit Environmentalists won't tax the hell out of everyone is cute but dumb.

I'd also point out that the Ukraine can grow Oilseed Rape using banned Insecticides - 'cos of Bees - but it gets imported into the Uk by the millions of tonnes. Not much "Optional" there.

Or how about banned Herbicides in Canada being used ? And our dear "Red Tractor" waving in imports as higher quality ?

I think he means elms is optional...

DrWazzock · Jan 23, 2022

7610 super q said:
Thing is, the likes of RSPB and NT have single aims, and can musty professional folks to lobby DEFRA.
NFU have done fudge all, but how can they with so many different aims ? No till vs proper farming, Small scale vs large scale, Arable vs livestock, Organic vs Conventional.
We just can't muster a united front. And it'll cost us.

I get to the “I’m alright Jack” stage with the whole thing if I’m honest.
We haven’t borrowed a lot of money.
We haven’t spent a lot on shiny kit or toys.
We haven’t bought land at top prices.
We don’t pay stupid rents.
We don’t take on more than we can sensibly manage.
We don’t employ expensive people.
We saw reduction in subs coming.
We do off farm non ag work.
We don’t run fancy motors.
We don’t go on foreign holidays.
We live modestly.
We’ll be alright.

As you say, there are so many different factions in the farming industry that trying to reach any kind of consensus is impossible.
So I give up arguing and we will do as we see fit and let the rest do as they like.
I’ve given up trying to change the world. It’s a waste of time and effort. Nobody listens. Let them learn the hard way.

Courier · Jan 23, 2022

DrWazzock said:
I get to the “I’m alright Jack” stage with the whole thing if I’m honest.
We haven’t borrowed a lot of money.
We haven’t spent a lot on shiny kit or toys.
We haven’t bought land at top prices.
We don’t pay stupid rents.
We don’t take on more than we can sensibly manage.
We don’t employ expensive people.
We saw reduction in subs coming.
We do off farm non ag work.
We don’t run fancy motors.
We don’t go on foreign holidays.
We live modestly.
We’ll be alright.

As you say, there are so many different factions in the farming industry that trying to reach any kind of consensus is impossible.
So I give up arguing and we will do as we see fit and let the rest do as they like.
I’ve given up trying to change the world. It’s a waste of time and effort. Nobody listens. Let them learn the hard way.

One thing to add to that list …..

We’ve no ambition.

DrWazzock · Jan 23, 2022

Courier said:
One thing to add to that list …..

We’ve no ambition.

You could say that. Looked at another way, we made most profit here when we were unambitious. Sweat the existing assets. Don’t keep changing things. If it’s not broken don’t fix it.
Pioneers tend to get shot by the Indians, but good luck to them. Somebody has to do it.
Steady as she goes.

7610 super q · Jan 23, 2022

Did anyone die of being too cautious ?

Quite a few on here aren't old enough to remember the mass farming bankruptcies of the 1980's.

Maybe we won't ever see that again, seeing as the new way seems to be borrow money with no intention of paying it back.

I'm not so sure.

holwellcourtfarm · Jan 23, 2022

delilah said:
As I may have said before:

1) 90% of ELMS to the SFI, 10% to the lentil knitters.
2) £220/Ha on the first 40 Ha of PP.
3) Proper - that is to say profitable - payments on water margins and hedgerows
4) Capital grants focused on shortening the supply chain.
5) New entrant support.

No 4 doesn't need money, just political action to absolutely outlaw abuse of power.

As much likelihood of that in the UK as of Boris being PM in 2100.

wanton dwarf · Jan 23, 2022

Humble Village Farmer said:
I think he means elms is optional...

Did you manage to write this without crissing your fingers behind your back ?

wanton dwarf · Jan 23, 2022

holwellcourtfarm said:
No 4 doesn't need money, just political action to absolutely outlaw abuse of power.

As much likelihood of that in the UK as of Boris being PM in 2100.

With the regulation on UK agriculture stopping the use of certain chemicals - it's quite obvious HMG is pursuing an agenda of extended supply lines.

Oilseed Rape from Ukraine using banned pesticides that "Kill bees" .. not a problem.

DaveGrohl · Jan 23, 2022

7610 super q said:
Thing is, the likes of RSPB and NT have single aims, and can musty professional folks to lobby DEFRA.
NFU have done fudge all, but how can they with so many different aims ? No till vs proper farming, Small scale vs large scale, Arable vs livestock, Organic vs Conventional.
We just can't muster a united front. And it'll cost us.

It shouldn’t even be vs and should be and but I take your point in that they aren’t defending a single position.

delilah · Jan 23, 2022

wanton dwarf said:
IF the loonies were interested in "Sequestering Carbon" they'd be ensuring trees planted were used in the Construction industry.

In fact they'd have stopped Amazonian Rainforest dectruction decades ago,.

It's a con.

It's all about punishing one group of workers so the Super Rich can make a killing on imports and in the future Contruction Land.

Environmentalism = Bollox.

Having been a 'loonie' who campaigned to 'stop Amazonian rainforest destruction decades ago', I am interested to understand how you make the jump from that to the 'Super Rich', and in turn to the conclusion that 'environmentalism is bollox'.

wanton dwarf · Jan 23, 2022

delilah said:
Having been a 'loonie' who campaigned to 'stop Amazonian rainforest destruction decades ago', I am interested to understand how you make the jump from that to the 'Super Rich', and in turn to the conclusion that 'environmentalism is bollox'.

We'll start with an easy one.

The Environment Agency are currently creating ELMS with the excuse that more trees need to be planted.

How much money HAS and IS being spent by the Civil Service doing this ?

The Bollox in this case is that the Amazon Rainforest grows 365/24/7 whereas Temperate forest in the UK stops growing during winter. The Amazon will lose habitats and species - whereas the UK has none to lose.

The Super RIch are making money on agricultural goods sold from the Amazon. Imports of Wind Turbines. Exports of "Recycled Plastic" - which gets burnt. Importing Energy from France via under sea cables. "Alternative" foods.

All sourced from the Bollox that is "Environmentalism".

Henarar · Jan 23, 2022

holwellcourtfarm said:
No 4 doesn't need money, just political action to absolutely outlaw abuse of power.

As much likelihood of that in the UK as of Boris being PM in 2100.

Bet you 100 quid he is.
As long as you pick up the money yourself

delilah · Jan 24, 2022

wanton dwarf said:
We'll start with an easy one.

The Environment Agency are currently creating ELMS with the excuse that more trees need to be planted.

How much money HAS and IS being spent by the Civil Service doing this ?

The Bollox in this case is that the Amazon Rainforest grows 365/24/7 whereas Temperate forest in the UK stops growing during winter. The Amazon will lose habitats and species - whereas the UK has none to lose.

The Super RIch are making money on agricultural goods sold from the Amazon. Imports of Wind Turbines. Exports of "Recycled Plastic" - which gets burnt. Importing Energy from France via under sea cables. "Alternative" foods.

All sourced from the Bollox that is "Environmentalism".

You missed out the loonies.

holwellcourtfarm · Jan 24, 2022

wanton dwarf said:
We'll start with an easy one.

The Environment Agency are currently creating ELMS with the excuse that more trees need to be planted.

How much money HAS and IS being spent by the Civil Service doing this ?

The Bollox in this case is that the Amazon Rainforest grows 365/24/7 whereas Temperate forest in the UK stops growing during winter. The Amazon will lose habitats and species - whereas the UK has none to lose.

The Super RIch are making money on agricultural goods sold from the Amazon. Imports of Wind Turbines. Exports of "Recycled Plastic" - which gets burnt. Importing Energy from France via under sea cables. "Alternative" foods.

All sourced from the Bollox that is "Environmentalism".

Shortly it's "Bollox" to claim "The Environment Agency are currently creating ELMS"?

In what way THEY creating it? :scratchhead:

kfpben · Jan 24, 2022

Ffermer Bach said:
I heard a very interesting programme on radio 4 talking about fires being lit in the valleys in Wales by school children. They said, it was partly because the general population has no attachment or "cultural ownership" of the surrounding valleys and moors, this being due to the way the population were disenfranchised from their land, which has resulted in a trans generational cultural script to not

wanton dwarf said:
With the regulation on UK agriculture stopping the use of certain chemicals - it's quite obvious HMG is pursuing an agenda of extended supply lines.

Oilseed Rape from Ukraine using banned pesticides that "Kill bees" .. not a problem.

Give it a fortnight and we might not be worrying about exports from Ukraine

Excellent article about rewilding

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