The Relationship between SFI and CSS ?

Humble Village Farmer

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Essex
This complexity arises from the approach we're taking of gradually rolling out the new schemes, alongside the existing ones, before then turning the existing schemes off and allowing people to transfer across. (The alternative is a big bang approach where we switch everyone across from existing schemes to new ones, one day - we've found that those sorts of approaches to this sort of project don't generally work very well)

CSS will continue to accept new applications until 2023 (for agreements to start in 2024). We'd encourage anyone not already in a scheme to look again at CSS, including the improvements we've made to inspections and penalties to make them fairer and more proportionate.

From 2025, all new agreements will be through Environmental Land Management schemes, and we'll provide a smooth way for those in CSS to transfer across to ELM schemes.

For the pilot, we weren't ready to deal with overlaps between CSS and SFI, so we only took applications on parcels not already covered by CSS.

For the rollout of SFI more widely later this year, we've said you can have both CSS and SFI on the same parcel so long as we're not paying you for the same thing twice, and as long as the actions are compatible / not contradictory.

If you want the full range of options from now, the best option is to go into CSS for now and transfer across to new schemes once they're fully ready. Or, if you're already in CSS, you can start adding in SFI standards alongside your CSS agreement and then eventually transfer across. Or, if you want to start small and build from there and you like the simplicity of SFI when we launch it this year, you can start in SFI in 2022 and build up from there, avoiding the need to transfer from one scheme to another later on. It's up to you to decide which of these routes is best for your farm depending on what combination of things you want to do, and where you're starting from.
Hi Janet, are there going to be restrictions on what and when we can transfer from C's to SFI?

And will we be allowed to end a cs agreement early to transfer what's left into SFI (or elms).
 
This complexity arises from the approach we're taking of gradually rolling out the new schemes, alongside the existing ones, before then turning the existing schemes off and allowing people to transfer across. (The alternative is a big bang approach where we switch everyone across from existing schemes to new ones, one day - we've found that those sorts of approaches to this sort of project don't generally work very well)

CSS will continue to accept new applications until 2023 (for agreements to start in 2024). We'd encourage anyone not already in a scheme to look again at CSS, including the improvements we've made to inspections and penalties to make them fairer and more proportionate.

From 2025, all new agreements will be through Environmental Land Management schemes, and we'll provide a smooth way for those in CSS to transfer across to ELM schemes.

For the pilot, we weren't ready to deal with overlaps between CSS and SFI, so we only took applications on parcels not already covered by CSS.

For the rollout of SFI more widely later this year, we've said you can have both CSS and SFI on the same parcel so long as we're not paying you for the same thing twice, and as long as the actions are compatible / not contradictory.

If you want the full range of options from now, the best option is to go into CSS for now and transfer across to new schemes once they're fully ready. Or, if you're already in CSS, you can start adding in SFI standards alongside your CSS agreement and then eventually transfer across. Or, if you want to start small and build from there and you like the simplicity of SFI when we launch it this year, you can start in SFI in 2022 and build up from there, avoiding the need to transfer from one scheme to another later on. It's up to you to decide which of these routes is best for your farm depending on what combination of things you want to do, and where you're starting from.
Will the transfer be compulsory
ie if you have a 5 year mid tier starting in 2023 will you be allowed to keep it the full 5 years to 2027
then start elms
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
This complexity arises from the approach we're taking of gradually rolling out the new schemes, alongside the existing ones, before then turning the existing schemes off and allowing people to transfer across. (The alternative is a big bang approach where we switch everyone across from existing schemes to new ones, one day - we've found that those sorts of approaches to this sort of project don't generally work very well)

CSS will continue to accept new applications until 2023 (for agreements to start in 2024). We'd encourage anyone not already in a scheme to look again at CSS, including the improvements we've made to inspections and penalties to make them fairer and more proportionate.

From 2025, all new agreements will be through Environmental Land Management schemes, and we'll provide a smooth way for those in CSS to transfer across to ELM schemes.

For the pilot, we weren't ready to deal with overlaps between CSS and SFI, so we only took applications on parcels not already covered by CSS.

For the rollout of SFI more widely later this year, we've said you can have both CSS and SFI on the same parcel so long as we're not paying you for the same thing twice, and as long as the actions are compatible / not contradictory.

If you want the full range of options from now, the best option is to go into CSS for now and transfer across to new schemes once they're fully ready. Or, if you're already in CSS, you can start adding in SFI standards alongside your CSS agreement and then eventually transfer across. Or, if you want to start small and build from there and you like the simplicity of SFI when we launch it this year, you can start in SFI in 2022 and build up from there, avoiding the need to transfer from one scheme to another later on. It's up to you to decide which of these routes is best for your farm depending on what combination of things you want to do, and where you're starting from.


Thank-you Janet

much clearer now
 

redsloe

Member
Location
Cornwall
Thank-you Janet

much clearer now
Is it?
Your in the pilot and now have been encouraged to apply for css even though the system can't deal with them both at the same time.
Are you still looking at cs for next year?
Also,
Is the pilot a one year thing and you can apply for sfi properly like the rest of us next year to start alongside your css?
 

chaffcutter

Moderator
Arable Farmer
Location
S. Staffs
@Janet Hughes Defra - we are in the SFI Pilot, so does this apply to us, that we can enter 'an area' (but not the same area each year) into CSS options eg AB9, AB1, AB8 without upsetting the SFI ?
Or does this only apply to entrants in the SFI proper when it is launched?
 
I'm struggling too get my head around how these 2 schemes will work together

I'm in SFI pilot but a requirement of pilot was no existing CSS agreements so we held off purposely on CSS last year

I want to do CSS ........ there are options there that are more finically attractive than SFI and I think will enhance environment more whilst sitting alongside our food production BUT I cant get my head around haw these schemes fit together ? will more SFI option replace CSS or is CSS here to stay as part of all this ?

The scheme are run by different agencies (Natural England vs RPA). will that remain the case ? seems so much overlap in all this as both schemes ultimately aim to achieve similar result ??


In summary should I now apply for CSS or will that be outdated, superseded by SFI almost as soon as I do ?

@Janet Hughes Defra A similar question to mine above was asked in the SFI pilot Welcome zoom I did last week but I think it went unanswered, I have spoken too several farmers in wondering they same about how the schemes will work together (or not as the case maybe). Can you shed any light on this please ? (Help line had no idea when asked BTW !)

Been in CS since 2019 but also involved with the early pilot then asked to go into the current pilot. Declined because SFI doesn’t stack up and I dont think they know what they are doing quite frankly.
 
There's some quite attractive payments on offer if you can fit them into your farming system.
Been through it and for us it doesn’t stack up. I’m even now on some kind of discussion thing with them about why it doesn’t work 🤷🏻‍♂️. When our CS runs out if we can’t renew it as another CS, it will be coming out and cropped. Shame as it’s been in place under various schemes for about 25 years at a guess.
 

delilah

Member
Been in CS since 2019 but also involved with the early pilot then asked to go into the current pilot. Declined because SFI doesn’t stack up and I dont think they know what they are doing quite frankly.

We were accepted into the early pilot but are now in the position of questioning why we would want to pilot standards that they have now scrapped. Other than for the £5k to tell them that the whole thing is a crock of sh!t. As has been said on here repeatedly, they need to reach for a blank piece of paper.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Been in CS since 2019 but also involved with the early pilot then asked to go into the current pilot. Declined because SFI doesn’t stack up and I dont think they know what they are doing quite frankly.


Sfi pilot wasn’t open to anyone in existing CSS so that makes no sense? they were very specific about that as Janet confirmed in her earlier reply
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Is it?
Your in the pilot and now have been encouraged to apply for css even though the system can't deal with them both at the same time.
Are you still looking at cs for next year?
Also,
Is the pilot a one year thing and you can apply for sfi properly like the rest of us next year to start alongside your css?


i think the answer given said the system couldn’t deal with existing CSS coming into SFI pilot hence why farms with existing CSS were not invited to SFI pilot

Thats not the same as SFI pilot coming into CSS
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
That is not correct.


here in black and white in Defra website

32690F33-4A1A-44A3-98EC-064D405D4143.jpeg
 
100% is - @Janet Hughes Defra confirmed above that farms in CSS were not able to enter the sfi pilot as the existing system could not cope

i know several farmers that wanted to do sfi pilot but could not as they had CSS already running

read Janets reply above - its in there

She might well be saying that but I can confirm what I’ve said is true. I can’t explain why but it’s happened.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
The screenshot confirms that you are wrong. It's not rocket science. :) .

not many farms in css that would have some parcels not in it that they fancoed doing sfi on instead ! - farms tend to be either in css or not especially arable ones where many options are rotational

its pretty clear that parcels in css were not able to apply for sfi pilot


does look like sfi pilot parcels can now apply for css however
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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