If any more evidence is needed to prove the problem is development, not farming, You need a simple piece of evidence . A light map of uk 30 years ago, then one today. It shows what is destroying the countryside clearly.The change is huge.
New information about local nature recovery and landscape recovery
- Thread starter Janet Hughes Defra
- Start date
And yet MPs from the government (who you work for) voted against an amendment to stop water companies dumping raw sewage in our rivers?
@Janet Hughes Defra
As this is well documented, can you please describe in detail which habitats have declined, over what period, and the cause of this decline. Thank you
My sons have pointed out that we farmers in the SDA areas are perhaps looking at this all wrong & that perhaps we are being offered an opportunity by being ignored by DEFRA to follow the NZ example & be able to tell Defra & NE to go feck themselves.
In our case with extensive moor rights when the current schemes end the moorland herd of cattle & sheep will triple in size, no spreading of dung then no problem the cows will winter on the moorland, 500 acres of our in country land which is currently PP will be earmarked for round up & be seeded out with high yielding rye grass & white clover.
Useless Eustace has said he wants profitable farms, this will not happen by fannying about with cut price ELMS schemes but will come about when we stop messing around with flowery fields & get serious & intensive.
For us another advantage with more use of the free grazing on moorland is that one not needed worker can be let go, maybe Janet & her crowd are unwittingly giving us the incentive we need to get serious about a farming business that will not be DEFRA's plaything!
- Location
- Lincolnshire
That’s what we are going to do down here Brian. Simple straightforward commercial farming. Crops that pay. No schemes. Hundreds of hours of faffing about saved. Keep it neat and tidy. No room for thistles docks and ragwort.
Candyfloss??
100% agree with you. Never had a sub and never will. Want to enjoy my cattle and sheep and to be left alone in my splendid isolation.
- Location
- People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Intresting point...
They have been dictating how we do our environmental stuff for 20+ years, yet they saying now nature is in trouble due to farmers...
The Seeker
Member
I think the thread is very important as it is open to everyone on both ends , what had surprised me the most is that in the beginning we were all looking be polite and listen, we all talked in defra jargon and it seemed like we are all politely going to do what was asked but then the groundswell has turned and it has shown that many many feel like this is not something they have any need nor want to be part of , the thread has allowed farmers to have an open discussion of there real fears where as years gone by we would have been told that many farmers have signed up, including the neighbours so “don’t go against defra and be a good chap and sign up - everyone els has” and we would have dutifully done it , but now with the net in full flow we are all scratching our heads saying …. Erm hang on a minute ..
- Location
- Durham, UK
Have you not noticed its always our fault regardless.
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
BBC news yesterday , and water co dumping waste in the wye , they still had to have a dig at agriculture , there is a total blind spot regard water companies, over development and no investment in infrastructure
- Location
- Lincolnshire
What hoovers up all the ground nesting birds and leverets?
Badgers and buzzards. And dog walkers send them off .
What roots out all the bumble bee nests?
Badgers.
What kills all the hedgehogs?
Badgers, traffic.
What kills the song birds, fledglings, bats, voles and field and wood living rodents? Domestic cats.
What puts phososhate into watercourses and increases oxygen demand?
Lack of proper sewerage system in our village, discharge from badly maintained septic tanks.
We are over run with badgers here.
But of course it’s all the farmers fault.
Well what’s the point of us creating even more habitat or protecting watercourses when our efforts are trashed by practices and rules completely beyond our control?
When the verge past our farm is not strewn with litter, when there is an acknowledgement that water companies need to do their bit, when the police take rural crime seriously, when footpath users keep dogs under control, when cat owners acknowledge the damage they do, when those who support and protect ever increasing badger numbers acknowledge the other species they are endangering, then maybe I’ll do my bit as well.
But I’m not holding my breath. Nobody ever says a word against the biggest culprits because there is either lots of money or lots of votes at stake.
No, stuff if. I’m having nothing to do with DEFRA or Natural England and it’s schemes. I’ll do my bit for nature as I’ve always done. I do plenty as it is.
Badgers and buzzards. And dog walkers send them off .
What roots out all the bumble bee nests?
Badgers.
What kills all the hedgehogs?
Badgers, traffic.
What kills the song birds, fledglings, bats, voles and field and wood living rodents? Domestic cats.
What puts phososhate into watercourses and increases oxygen demand?
Lack of proper sewerage system in our village, discharge from badly maintained septic tanks.
We are over run with badgers here.
But of course it’s all the farmers fault.
Well what’s the point of us creating even more habitat or protecting watercourses when our efforts are trashed by practices and rules completely beyond our control?
When the verge past our farm is not strewn with litter, when there is an acknowledgement that water companies need to do their bit, when the police take rural crime seriously, when footpath users keep dogs under control, when cat owners acknowledge the damage they do, when those who support and protect ever increasing badger numbers acknowledge the other species they are endangering, then maybe I’ll do my bit as well.
But I’m not holding my breath. Nobody ever says a word against the biggest culprits because there is either lots of money or lots of votes at stake.
No, stuff if. I’m having nothing to do with DEFRA or Natural England and it’s schemes. I’ll do my bit for nature as I’ve always done. I do plenty as it is.
CopperBeech
Member
- Location
- A Welsh man lost in England
Here’s a question for you ? Are you going to do anything about the many other factors that contribute to Things like the decline in farmland birds ?
- Location
- Lincolnshire
They will do nothing. They did next to nothing to control badgers to stop the spread of TB. They were happy to sit on the fence and watch thousands of cattle slaughtered and livelihoods destroyed, all for sake of controlling badger numbers.
I for one certainly don’t want to cooperate with such a gutless hypocritical organisation all driven by Boris’s entourage of vegan animal rights crackpots such as the Goldsmith brothers and and his latest Mrs.
Stuff them. And maybe all those thousands of DEFRA employees will have to find a proper job.
- Location
- People's Republic of South Yorkshire
@Janet Hughes Defra
Regarding landscape recovery.
To what point in history and you wanting it recovered to?
I mean farmers planted all the hedges and dug out ditches. All the birds/animals living in hedges obviously did not have all that habitat before them. So we assume other birds/animals were more numerous that were suited to a landscape with no hedges and ditches.
So as your wanting proper habitat recovery we better pull out all the hedges and fill in the ditches on any land that goes into these schemes.
Oh a lot of woods on big estates were planted for shooting/hunting. They better come out as well as they not natural.
Ponds and lakes that have been dug.
Better fill them back in, not natural.
The other problem you got is since man has been about, he been killing stuff. Mainly to eat. But then for sport. So for literally hundreds of years predators have been controlled, that allowed a greater number of smaller animals/birds than natural.
This balance has been maintained for 100s of years. Now its been changed and we can already see the damage predator numbers are doing.
I am sure any scientist can tell you that if you get yo mang predators, then the numbers go down.
So how can you increase numbers of small birds/ animal's without controlling predators?
Regarding landscape recovery.
To what point in history and you wanting it recovered to?
I mean farmers planted all the hedges and dug out ditches. All the birds/animals living in hedges obviously did not have all that habitat before them. So we assume other birds/animals were more numerous that were suited to a landscape with no hedges and ditches.
So as your wanting proper habitat recovery we better pull out all the hedges and fill in the ditches on any land that goes into these schemes.
Oh a lot of woods on big estates were planted for shooting/hunting. They better come out as well as they not natural.
Ponds and lakes that have been dug.
Better fill them back in, not natural.
The other problem you got is since man has been about, he been killing stuff. Mainly to eat. But then for sport. So for literally hundreds of years predators have been controlled, that allowed a greater number of smaller animals/birds than natural.
This balance has been maintained for 100s of years. Now its been changed and we can already see the damage predator numbers are doing.
I am sure any scientist can tell you that if you get yo mang predators, then the numbers go down.
So how can you increase numbers of small birds/ animal's without controlling predators?
- Location
- Moreton-in-Marsh, Glos
If you tell someone that “Black is White” for long enough, eventually they will come to believe it and agree with you.
It seems that this is what has happened to the public. Not helped by social media and when out of date and false informative is constantly trawled out.
This is an example of Coercive Control, which is now a Criminal Offence. Which it also seems to me that DEFRA’s ELMs team have become a victim of!
Well known for her health food businesses, on a recent Dragons Den program, I noticed Debra Meaden immediately say “I’m out” on a project involving a Dairy project because of some issues she had with Dairy Farmers. Probably due to an issue with silage or muck carting in her locality. This will undoubtedly have had an influence on the program viewers. She conveniently forgets that thanks to safe, healthy Dairy Milk, many babies have been saved from child mortality.
However, what I really can’t understand is where the heck are the NFU in all of this thread debate?
I’m no huge fan of it and believe many of its views, approaches and attitudes are completely wrong.
But they appear to be increasingly conspicuous in their absence!
You’d think that they would have a far larger part in all of this that they appear to be doing so.
It seems that this is what has happened to the public. Not helped by social media and when out of date and false informative is constantly trawled out.
This is an example of Coercive Control, which is now a Criminal Offence. Which it also seems to me that DEFRA’s ELMs team have become a victim of!
Well known for her health food businesses, on a recent Dragons Den program, I noticed Debra Meaden immediately say “I’m out” on a project involving a Dairy project because of some issues she had with Dairy Farmers. Probably due to an issue with silage or muck carting in her locality. This will undoubtedly have had an influence on the program viewers. She conveniently forgets that thanks to safe, healthy Dairy Milk, many babies have been saved from child mortality.
However, what I really can’t understand is where the heck are the NFU in all of this thread debate?
I’m no huge fan of it and believe many of its views, approaches and attitudes are completely wrong.
But they appear to be increasingly conspicuous in their absence!
You’d think that they would have a far larger part in all of this that they appear to be doing so.
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popcorn, and if you read the last few posts you will see whyCandyfloss??
I hope @Janet Hughes Defra is reading them
- Location
- Mendips Somerset
add to that what effect has assurance schemes had on nature , years ago corn in sacks and open barns meant barn owls , rats that fed badgers foxes and predatory birds , spilt grain also fed starlings and sparrows (and the rest) and dont forget the gamekeepers feeding game also feed small birds through winter , they wont wind back the clock by having a sterile countryside , thats not how it works, as most of us know, excepting those that worship at the church of Packham !