Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
The law has changed for construction and quarrying.
Red and white diesel and farming operations
- Thread starter Goweresque
- Start date
The law has changed for construction and quarrying.
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Except it’s only the fuel cost that will be altering, machine costs, drivers wages etc aren’t affected by this so costs aren’t going to double............unless they want to jump on the band wagon of any old excuse to put rates up.the contractor round here said that the drainage board said as you will be more expensive on white we will do half as much each year
Cab-over Pete
Member
- Location
- Kenilworth, Warwickshire
Yes, it has, but we don’t need to worry about that as farmers and 100% agricultural businesses.
It’s difficult for people like @Kevtherev because he’s involved in both agricultural and construction work.
It’s not difficult to know what such contractors NEED to do, but the practicalities make things very difficult.
- Location
- Welshpool Powys
It’s not going to be easy managing two fuels.
Tarw Coch
Member
- Location
- Bottom of Wats Dyke
Sounds about as easy as trying to manage two women
I would imagine that our drainage rates will increase to compensate. We are lucky that they are very active and they do try and keep on top of things. I hope they don’t start doing less.the contractor round here said that the drainage board said as you will be more expensive on white we will do half as much each year
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
New rules make it difficult for folks like me that have the only telescopic in the village and get asked to lift the odd pallet of delivery wagons for my non farming neighbours. Should be white for them jobs but would take longer to swap diesel than the 5 mins the job takes
I hope to muppet that changed the rules gets a hernia moving something heavy cos there isn't a machine handy on white to move it for him!
Technically you couldn’t do those little jobs on the rules as they are, the new rules don’t change anything in this scenario. The key word in the legislation is solely, the rules say that your only entitled to use red if your agricultural machine is solely used for agricultural purposes. That means if you use it for any other purposes, even just once, it’s not entitled to use red.
Ali_Maxxum
Member
- Location
- Chepstow, Wales
A friend has ordered 10,000 litres of red which is going to be 98p. It's honestly had me in genuine tears today at how sh!t everything is getting so quickly.
Me and the old man had a discussion yesterday about how much we are going to put our prices up by as our last lot of diesel was 76p. By this morning and having other farming and contracting friends ring me throughout the day it looks as if it may be wise to decide what we are going to charge every time we have a load of diesel.
Is equine fencing agricultural? Probably technically not but it's in an agricultural field or is it a field used for leisure so anything you do in it should be on white?
Honestly who is going to police it and quite frankly with the amount of anxiety that comes with it for simply trying to get your head down and earn a crust I can see a lot of folk seriously reconsidering whether its worth it at all. We just seem to be getting f'ed from every angle at the moment.
Hopefully it will level out and come right in the end but at the moment this is one wave that just feels like we don't have a big enough surf board.
Me and the old man had a discussion yesterday about how much we are going to put our prices up by as our last lot of diesel was 76p. By this morning and having other farming and contracting friends ring me throughout the day it looks as if it may be wise to decide what we are going to charge every time we have a load of diesel.
Is equine fencing agricultural? Probably technically not but it's in an agricultural field or is it a field used for leisure so anything you do in it should be on white?
Honestly who is going to police it and quite frankly with the amount of anxiety that comes with it for simply trying to get your head down and earn a crust I can see a lot of folk seriously reconsidering whether its worth it at all. We just seem to be getting f'ed from every angle at the moment.
Hopefully it will level out and come right in the end but at the moment this is one wave that just feels like we don't have a big enough surf board.
Equine is not agricultural.
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
To be completely honest I’ve been out of the loop on this for a few years so might not be right on some of this however as I understand it your 360 is still entitled to use red as it comes into the special vehicle category as a digger and also comes into the category of vehicles not used on road. Here’s the extract
Under the old rules repairing farm tracks, buildings etc qualified as agricultural operations, constructing new ones didn’t.
Thirdly, regarding contractors we established that you couldn’t discriminate between farmers and contractors, ie if someone who called themselves a farmer was entitled to use red then a contractor doing the same job was equally entitled.
If you re read Notice 75 from HMRC ( it was updated in Feb 22 ) and the MOA I think there is reference to conservation in it.
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
I can see a big opportunity for agricultural contractors to buy plant and hire that to farmers for farmers use only so it’s always running on red.
That will be an attractive option to farmers. If I had a 13t digger in for a week to do some ditching I would be crying if the plant hire company insist it to be run on white.
If I had an alternative I could hire from a contractor for the same or similar price and could run it on red that would be much more attractive.
That will be an attractive option to farmers. If I had a 13t digger in for a week to do some ditching I would be crying if the plant hire company insist it to be run on white.
If I had an alternative I could hire from a contractor for the same or similar price and could run it on red that would be much more attractive.
Ali_Maxxum
Member
- Location
- Chepstow, Wales
Goweresque
Member
- Location
- North Wilts
The other thing is is it physically possible to swap from red to white, and not have traces of red left in the system, which are then detectable by someone dipping the tank?
SilliamWhale
Member
Suppose a white diesel tank could be handy to run the car on too
spikeislander
Member
- Location
- bedfordshire
How do I stand with this ? Made a few divots
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
As far as I’m aware swapping isn’t an option, it’s either entitled to use red or it isn’t.
thats a piece of pish ,changing fuel every other day ,a right pain in the rectumSounds about as easy as trying to manage two women
difficult ,but the rules are vague how is a copper going to know?
- Location
- Yorkshire coast
Think we might just have to wing it like we've always done.
Simon Chiles
DD Moderator
- Location
- Surrey/ Kent Border, UK
It’s not up to coppers to enforce, that’s down to HMRC and they have a different level of power over your average Bobby.