The NI/ROI Protocol

nivilla1982

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Beragh, Co Tyrone, Northern Ireland
Update on Defending the Union of the UK, Ending the Northern Ireland Protocol

Dear Fellow Pro-unionists

As disappointing as it is, the Court of Appeal's judgement was not a surprise. We had never expected the matter finally to be decided in Belfast. The Supreme Court was always our end destination and that is now where we are heading.

But the rulings in Belfast have been revealing.

First and foremost it has now twice been decided that crucial aspects of the Act of Union 1800 have been set aside to make way for the Protocol. Justice Colton concluded they had been impliedly repealed. The Court of Appeal, aware of the political sensitivity of repealing the Act of Union, settled on claiming it to have been subjugated for as long as the Protocol remains in place. Either way, the Protocol has robbed Northern Ireland of its rightful place in the United Kingdom.

The Court of Appeal argued that Parliament clear sightedly gave the Protocol this effect. I challenge any MP to declare they thought they were voting for Northern Ireland to be removed from its union with Great Britain. There will not be a single one prepared to make such an outrageous declaration. The Court is wrong.

Second, the Court put paid to the consent mechanisms set out in the Belfast Agreement. It concluded these could be ignored and the Protocol, with its new constitution, could legitimately be foisted on Northern Ireland without its people’s and/ or cross community consent. The Belfast Agreement is of no benefit to Unionists.

Third, the human rights of British citizens living in Northern Ireland are unaffected by foreign laws being imposed on them without any right to vote on these or object to them.

In short, it has been adjudicated that the Protocol is legal in its contempt of the union of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and its people.

All the while Her Majesty's Government sits idly by.

So the Supreme Court it is. We shall not rest until this battle is won.

With best wishes

Ben Habib
 
The Agrarian

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
I think it was important that he made this statement now and cut his sticks completely with those rallies. It was clear they were orchestrated by crabby Jim to drum up election support for himself, and Butler and MacAuley were noticeably out of place on the two platforms they joined. I felt a pity on them having to sit through that embarrassing guff.
 
nivilla1982

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Beragh, Co Tyrone, Northern Ireland
The Agrarian said:
I think it was important that he made this statement now and cut his sticks completely with those rallies. It was clear they were orchestrated by crabby Jim to drum up election support for himself, and Butler and MacAuley were noticeably out of place on the two platforms they joined. I felt a pity on them having to sit through that embarrassing guff.
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At some stage he was going to put clear dividing lines between the UUP and the other Unionist parties.
 
nivilla1982

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Beragh, Co Tyrone, Northern Ireland
The Agrarian said:
Do you agree with the presumption that if his party was the largest unionist party, that he would take the DFM seat?

If so, why do you think he's holding back on saying that?
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I suspect the party will take whatever positions/seats they are entitled too after the election. Hard to make a prediction on the state of the parties election wise.

There is a significant internal tension with in the UUP. a mixture of urban v rural, liberal v conservative, those with unease/reservations about Beattie's style of leadership.

He will not come and say it before an election i suspect because
(1) the UUP will require vote transfers from across the unioninst spectrum while also trying to balance that need with the need to attract transfers from the "others" voting bloc. You will note the Alliance Party have focused more of their political attacks on the UUP since he became leader.
(2) I suspect not all the current MLAs and candidates are on board with serving in a SF led executive, I have personally heard Tom Elliott (a candidate in FST) say he will not vote for a SF First Minister in the Assembly. (presumuning he gets elected)
(3) The Ruling Party Executive is probably in similar positions to the MLAs and Candidates, the decision to enter government last time was a relatively close call till Party HQ/Officers stated that it made financial sense for the party to enter the Executive, while a large minority prefer to remain in opposition.
(4) You don't enter an election stating you are aiming for second place, (even though it is fairly obvious that is the aim)
 
The Agrarian

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
nivilla1982 said:
I suspect the party will take whatever positions/seats they are entitled too after the election. Hard to make a prediction on the state of the parties election wise.

There is a significant internal tension with in the UUP. a mixture of urban v rural, liberal v conservative, those with unease/reservations about Beattie's style of leadership.

He will not come and say it before an election i suspect because
(1) the UUP will require vote transfers from across the unioninst spectrum while also trying to balance that need with the need to attract transfers from the "others" voting bloc. You will note the Alliance Party have focused more of their political attacks on the UUP since he became leader.
(2) I suspect not all the current MLAs and candidates are on board with serving in a SF led executive, I have personally heard Tom Elliott (a candidate in FST) say he will not vote for a SF First Minister in the Assembly. (presumuning he gets elected)
(3) The Ruling Party Executive is probably in similar positions to the MLAs and Candidates, the decision to enter government last time was a relatively close call till Party HQ/Officers stated that it made financial sense for the party to enter the Executive, while a large minority prefer to remain in opposition.
(4) You don't enter an election stating you are aiming for second place, (even though it is fairly obvious that is the aim)
Click to expand...

1. How do they do, generally speaking, on transfers from DUP 1st pref voters? I could imagine a lot not wanting to give the UUP a second vote anyway. Very possible this time that any alliance voters Beattie is not able to win over might still give UUP their second vote.

2. Tom, dear love him, is a good man. But he lets the scars of the past cloud his judgement far too often. If he can't bring pragmatism to the fore, he'd be best to take a back seat.

3. I can't imagine they'd be so backward as to refuse an OFMDFM seat, when it comes to the crunch.

4. He doesn't need to talk about second place. That was just me. He only needs to talk about participation in all the structures as per election results. I'd think his alliance swing voters would need to hear him come out on the side of functioning institutions, if there's to be any hope of netting them. This seems a very obvious point to me. Beattie isn't interested in orange and green politics, and yet he lets this ambiguity hang like a bad smell. You only have to look at the lucid poll results today to see how much nationalists think Jeffrey's policy stinks.
 
H

Herb9

Member
Livestock Farmer
nivilla1982 said:
I suspect the party will take whatever positions/seats they are entitled too after the election. Hard to make a prediction on the state of the parties election wise.

There is a significant internal tension with in the UUP. a mixture of urban v rural, liberal v conservative, those with unease/reservations about Beattie's style of leadership.

He will not come and say it before an election i suspect because
(1) the UUP will require vote transfers from across the unioninst spectrum while also trying to balance that need with the need to attract transfers from the "others" voting bloc. You will note the Alliance Party have focused more of their political attacks on the UUP since he became leader.
(2) I suspect not all the current MLAs and candidates are on board with serving in a SF led executive, I have personally heard Tom Elliott (a candidate in FST) say he will not vote for a SF First Minister in the Assembly. (presumuning he gets elected)
(3) The Ruling Party Executive is probably in similar positions to the MLAs and Candidates, the decision to enter government last time was a relatively close call till Party HQ/Officers stated that it made financial sense for the party to enter the Executive, while a large minority prefer to remain in opposition.
(4) You don't enter an election stating you are aiming for second place, (even though it is fairly obvious that is the aim)
Click to expand...
Is Tom Elliot a bit of an outlier within the UUP. His outlook at times seems to be more in line with some of the other Unionist parties. A symptom of sitting in a more Nationalist constituency maybe?
 
The Agrarian

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
Not that it's a nationalist constituency, but that it's a border constituency. The difference may sound subtle, but it's quite important, especially looking through his eyes. He saw first hand the ethnic cleansing campaign, particularly of protestant farmers, and like with Arlene Foster, it's a scar on their soul and psyche that will remain to the grave. Saying it's because it's a nationalist constituency suggests it's because he just doesn't like Catholics, which I don't think would be the case at all. He doesn't like murderers, especially ones who literally got away with it. And I'm sure the same can be said of many of the families of victims of loyalist terrorists, and of those who believe they were murdered by state forces. They are quite within their rights to bear those scars - they didn't ask to have them. But the problem for the youth of the land is that we need to get on with the business of being normal again, for their sake as well as our own. I think that means paying much more attention to the work of healing those scars than has been done. You could say that's a major failing of the Belfast agreement. Terrorists released to continue their lives, but the victims expected to suck it up for the sake of peace, without much thought for the consequences.
 
nivilla1982

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Beragh, Co Tyrone, Northern Ireland
Herb9 said:
Is Tom Elliot a bit of an outlier within the UUP. His outlook at times seems to be more in line with some of the other Unionist parties. A symptom of sitting in a more Nationalist constituency maybe?
Click to expand...
What @The Agrarian says plus there is now a more apparent east/west and rural urban divide in the UUP. Also historically the UUP is a "big tent" of political thought/opinion beyond the maintenance of the United Kingdom.
 
H

Herb9

Member
Livestock Farmer
nivilla1982 said:
What @The Agrarian says plus there is now a more apparent east/west and rural urban divide in the UUP. Also historically the UUP is a "big tent" of political thought/opinion beyond the maintenance of the United Kingdom.
Click to expand...
I agree with you there. I’m curious about the extent of that divide. The perceived softer message from its leader doesn’t resonate with everyone, but Alliance are ready to swoop in the urban areas were he to talk any tougher. He’s banking on the rural UUP following backing their candidate, more so than the party. The SDLP will be worth watching I think. Eastwood has pushed a more hardline narrative of late - but the voters he’s targeting will mostly still vote SF - he could be leaving himself wide open for an Alliance smash and grab job.
 
The Agrarian

The Agrarian

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
Susan seems to be a bit of a whinger, to be honest. I can easily understand her anger and frustration with the DUP, but dislike the way she only refers to 'Unionism' or 'Unionists', ignoring the fact that at the last assembly election a sizeable minority of unionists, one third, voted for the UUP. She fails, I think deliberately, to point out that there are many unionists who are fine with the concept of power sharing etc, and share her frustration with the DUP.

Clarke makes good points, and they make extremely painful reading. It's almost unbelievable to see catalogued the damage the DUP have done to the union in the last five years.
 
A

Ashtree

Member
Now I see Junior Paisley, all on his own, has figured out that the Tory Party, is in fact The English Nationalist Party.
Well fudge me sideways, isn‘t Junior the bright boy in class. He has come to that enlightened conclusion about 15 years too late, and six years after he and his fellow thick DUP MP’s, sold their souls and the union to the self same English Nationalist Party.
 
nivilla1982

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Beragh, Co Tyrone, Northern Ireland
An "English Nationalist Party" that stand candidates in all 4 parts of the United Kingdom?
A Labour Party where legal action was required by NI members to organise local Branches and Associations in NI, and is still barred by the central Labour Party from standing candidates in NI.
 

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