Calf scour

Jdunn55 said:

Knew it was too good to be true
She died last night and another dying now

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Sorry to hear that. 3.5l per feeding straight off the bat sounds like a lot to me. We start on 2l for first week and then crank it up from there. Single hutches first 2 weeks then multi pens. Very low mortality

Really need to think hard about your workload @Jdunn55

Looks like you are trying to do 10 things and doing them poorly, better to do five things well.

The losses and vet bills you are having atm would pay for a lot of help.

In the pit said:

I tube my calves with as much colostrum as they can take as soon after birth as possible
you Can’t go on set amount cos bigger calves will take much more than smaller calves

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We don't tube unless required but thats for another day. I didn't realise tho that a calfs stomach will comfortably stand 7-8 litres of colostrum in that 1st feed, this was explained at a recent discussion group meeting with a well respected young stock vet specialist.
Your never too old to learn new stuff

pappuller said:

We don't tube unless required but thats for another day. I didn't realise tho that a calfs stomach will comfortably stand 7-8 litres of colostrum in that 1st feed, this was explained at a recent discussion group meeting with a well respected young stock vet specialist.
Your never too old to learn new stuff

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That's good to know.

Here they're all snatched and tubed 3-4L depending on size, then same again 12 hours later. I think it's made a massive difference.

We're going through a rough patch at the moment for the first time in a long time. We think it's cocci and a bit of pneumonia thrown in, but haven't actually lost any so far and I think colostrum intake is a big part of what is keeping them alive.

Just been reading back through this thread. Is it right that you are feeding 600g of milk powder twice daily. That seems a hell of a lot. You might get away with that ad-lib but that seems like alot for a calf to handle in one go. Have you always fed at this level? Have you changed the make of milk powder lately? I feed 700g per calf per day and have no trouble calving at 22 months.

It might just be easier to feed them 5 litres of cows milk split between 2 feeds saved from Johnes free cows. It will be easier on their digestion for sure.

pappuller said:

We don't tube unless required but thats for another day. I didn't realise tho that a calfs stomach will comfortably stand 7-8 litres of colostrum in that 1st feed, this was explained at a recent discussion group meeting with a well respected young stock vet specialist.
Your never too old to learn new stuff

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We always pull calves out the field once a day (in the morning )and while there in the trailer we stomach them one at a time and in the pen with them.it just makes it easier that way
Anything born later in the day gets stomach tubed in the afternoon and gets topped up in the next morning
Calves can take anywhere from 2 to 6/7 lts depending on size of calf and wether they’ve drunk or not

How are the calves now @Jdunn55

Jdunn55 said:

What do I do
Please can someone tell me what the f**k I'm doing wrong

I've now lost my fourth heifer in less than a week

They're having parafor

I've got vets (plural) coming out daily and have done for the past week

We are checking temperatures constantly and using antibiotics like sweeties

I'm tubing calves up to 4 times a day to keep them hydrated

I have literally no idea how much testing I have paid/paying for, bloods, dung etc

I know I'm sh!t and it's all my fault and I'm awful for using antibiotics etc

I do not know what to do but if I loose another calf the liklihood of me jumping of a building increases quite drastically, its absolutely soul destroying

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Rotavec?

Have the vets definitely ruled out salmonella?

Jdunn55 said:

What do I do
Please can someone tell me what the f**k I'm doing wrong

I've now lost my fourth heifer in less than a week

They're having parafor

I've got vets (plural) coming out daily and have done for the past week

We are checking temperatures constantly and using antibiotics like sweeties

I'm tubing calves up to 4 times a day to keep them hydrated

I have literally no idea how much testing I have paid/paying for, bloods, dung etc

I know I'm sh!t and it's all my fault and I'm awful for using antibiotics etc

I do not know what to do but if I loose another calf the liklihood of me jumping of a building increases quite drastically, its absolutely soul destroying

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Have you other buildings that you can calf cows in and rear calves in, somewhere that hasn't had calves in this winter, try to break the cycle. We did this a few years ago and it helped a bit.

You could be focusing on the wrong area
I had ecoli this year after steam cleaning out calf pens and all associated calf equipment before calving started
Fed calves well and bedded down daily (plenty straw ) and still had ecoli
Eventually got a decent vet who said didn’t matter how clean and tidy the calves were the ecoli had been picked up at birth ( I calveoutside) and had built up in the calf for. 2/3 weeks and didn’t matter what I did I would loose half the calves, and I did
His worlds of wisdom. ROTVEC. or we’ll be having the same conversation next year

Jdunn55 said:

I'm on my fourth calf rearing set up in less than 2 months and if anything it's worse

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Sounds obvious so perhaps you are already doing it but make sure you are either doing uninfected calves first or wearing different gear & using different feeders for new calves. Everything I've read says crypto is really hard to kill with disinfectant so I've bought new Waterproofs and wellies and am using a different feeder. Also changing gloves between groups.
My vet told me I could use halocur under 24 hours old as long as they have had colostrum.

Calve outside and let them stay with mummy to suck for 24 hrs. Don't stomach tube.
Don't get down about it. Ask yourself what you could have done differently... probably nothing. You've done your best. You'll have forgotten about this next year.
If crypto, you can use halocur for treatment.

We’ve had trouble this time of year before but not this year and found calving them outside sorted the problem. We keep them on the cow for at least 24 hours. Our vet said it was the calving pen that was the problem not the calf pens. If you wanted a chat and a fresh pair of eyes to look over things I’m more than happy to pop over sometime

turn them out. Chuck some bales of straw in a sacrifice field as shelter. It might create a different problem but at very least you have some sort of a chance

@Jdunn55 If crypto is the only thing showing up at the moment, I hate to break it to you but you might have to let it run it's course a bit (I don't mean don't treat them for it, more be prepared that you will lose some sadly).

From observing your posts on here since your calving season started, it is clear that you are being meticulous about taking calves and not letting them suckle because of the Johnes risk. I'm not knocking that, prevention is better than cure.
However, if you have a good idea of the higher risk Johnes cows, maybe focus on taking the calves from these and not letting them suck.
The thing is, at the moment you are potentially losing more calves/potential income/improved milkers and an increased herd size by not letting them get the best natural start they can and the calves succumbing to more bugs etc. At the end of the day it is either that the calves have a lowish risk of catching johnes by being with their mother for a few hours longer, or a really high chance (at the moment) of catching crypto and dying from early removal and mixing with other infected calves. Incidentally, both johnes and crypto largely spread from faeces.
If you can get them outside in a nice fresh paddock as someone else has suggested, it should help. Sunlight alone kills a lot of bugs.
Oh, and as for beating yourself up and jumping off buildings, if you want those animals to have a better chance at being fit and healthy, you have got to be there with a clear head to do that. Not in A and E with a couple of broken legs and a sore head from jumping.
I've been there a couple of times (still there to a point) with livestock stresses. Animals can sense it, and the more worked up and stressed I get, the worse everything goes. Easier said than done to relax, I know, but it doesn't mean you don't care if you are positive/optimistic and focus on what you can control. PM someone on here and have a rant if you need, don't spend all day ranting at yourself.