Long lasting fence posts (FG2 grant)

rhsmyth · Feb 18, 2021

this was the guidance I was given last autumn which I will be working to;

FG1 Fencing

'I have seen a previous question regarding this but found that the answer isn't clear to me.
I have a farmer who has asked if he can use creosote on posts that he uses for fencing under FG1 or possibly FG4. Can you confirm if this is permissible or not please? The posts would be on permanent grassland to prevent sheep access to a main watercourse. '

Response 'As stated in a number of previous responses about the use of creosote, there is legislation around it's use. We can't determine whether or not an agreement holder meets the requirements or not. It is for the agreement holder to consider if s/he can comply with any current legislation and if in doubt contact a body such as the Health and Safety Executive who deal with such issues. If the agreement holder complies with the legislation, they can use creosote'

His and therefore my take take on this is, if it's ok with the HSE....it's fine with Natural England. Just make sure they are compliant the date you claim.

farmerm · Feb 18, 2021

rhsmyth said:
this was the guidance I was given last autumn which I will be working to;

FG1 Fencing

'I have seen a previous question regarding this but found that the answer isn't clear to me.
I have a farmer who has asked if he can use creosote on posts that he uses for fencing under FG1 or possibly FG4. Can you confirm if this is permissible or not please? The posts would be on permanent grassland to prevent sheep access to a main watercourse. '

Response 'As stated in a number of previous responses about the use of creosote, there is legislation around it's use. We can't determine whether or not an agreement holder meets the requirements or not. It is for the agreement holder to consider if s/he can comply with any current legislation and if in doubt contact a body such as the Health and Safety Executive who deal with such issues. If the agreement holder complies with the legislation, they can use creosote'

His and therefore my take take on this is, if it's ok with the HSE....it's fine with Natural England. Just make sure they are compliant the date you claim.

"We can't determine whether or not an agreement holder meets the requirements or not" :scratchhead:

Useful to have that in writing, so they can not determine when one has failed to meet the requirements and therefore they can not impose any penalties on Mid Tier agreements then

Ffermer Bach · Feb 18, 2021

organicguy said:
I am replacing 10 year old creosote posts with the middles completely rotted out.
Please tell me where good one's come from?

fence n forget, when I have cut them you can see the creosote almost goes straight to the heart of the post. Fence n forget gets them from the same place that treat new telegraph posts, and I believe they are Baltic grown timber too.

tepapa · Feb 18, 2021

Ffermer Bach said:
fence n forget, when I have cut them you can see the creosote almost goes straight to the heart of the post. Fence n forget gets them from the same place that treat new telegraph posts, and I believe they are Baltic grown timber too.

FnF are supplied from scanpole in Newport who brought out BBH. BBH products couldn't be beaten but scanpole, nick named scampole, have dropped standards considerably but still go off BBH's reputation. It leaves FnF in a sticky spot because they've built their reputation on the quality from BBH but scampole aren't delivering quite the quality it's predecessor did.

Wellytrack · Feb 18, 2021

Poorbuthappy said:
Is it a case of creosote is not allowed next to water courses, which may just be a open ditch beside a hedge?

It may be that. Tbh the ones in charge or at least those you get on the end of a phone couldn't really say why. They said preserved posts but not "black preserved posts"

All depends how knowledgeable the party on the other end of the line is.

tepapa · Feb 18, 2021

There is no restrictions on using creo next to water courses.

Ffermer Bach · Feb 18, 2021

tepapa said:
FnF are supplied from scanpole in Newport who brought out BBH. BBH products couldn't be beaten but scanpole, nick named scampole, have dropped standards considerably but still go off BBH's reputation. It leaves FnF in a sticky spot because they've built their reputation on the quality from BBH but scampole aren't delivering quite the quality it's predecessor did.

oops, I will ask Mark, next time I have to get some posts from him, I know Morgan's of Aberystwyth sell some sort of Creo posts, but I have had a lot of tanilised posts from them in the past (when they were under a different ownership ~ Mount Trading), and those posts were very quick to rot, so I have been a bit dubious of their creo posts.

tepapa · Feb 18, 2021

Ffermer Bach said:
oops, I will ask Mark, next time I have to get some posts from him, I know Morgan's of Aberystwyth sell some sort of Creo posts, but I have had a lot of tanilised posts from them in the past (when they were under a different ownership ~ Mount Trading), and those posts were very quick to rot, so I have been a bit dubious of their creo posts.

Morgan's have branches near me. All looks like imported crap to me. Wouldn't touch it imo.
Marks still trying to sell quality, it's scampole letting him down.

GWP1993 · Aug 9, 2021

Tealo said:
We have gone to chestnut posts and not regretted it, no more rotten bottoms.

@Tealo , are you using untreated chestnut? I have an opportunity of as much sweet chestnut as i like if its right for the job. Have you used in CSS and its been ok?

pellow · Apr 12, 2022

For FG2 it says in the guidance: put up a steel wire mesh fence at least 1.05m high, not sure if this is a stupid question, does the mesh need to be 1.05 metres? because I think standard size is 80 cm

Ffermer Bach · Apr 12, 2022

DefenderDave said:
We have a large amount of fencing to do under the countryside strewardship FG2 grant. This states that;

Use softwood timber that is fully peeled, coated with wood preservative and pressure treated, or treated with an approved preservative - untreated durable timber can be used as set out in the Forestry Commission guide to forest fencing.

I presume this means we can’t use creosote posts? And if not what are the longest lasting posts you can use which comply with this grant?

I have used creosoted posts for glastir fencing (for hedge planting). I don't think the splits hit the specifications, so have to use 3-4" rounds.

Snippets · Apr 12, 2022

Tealo said:
We have gone to chestnut posts and not regretted it, no more rotten bottoms.

where do you get your chestnut posts from/what's the cost/where are the forestry guidelines, please? Thanks!

tepapa · Apr 12, 2022

pellow said:
For FG2 it says in the guidance: put up a steel wire mesh fence at least 1.05m high, not sure if this is a stupid question, does the mesh need to be 1.05 metres? because I think standard size is 80 cm

80cm mesh is fine with barb/plain above to get the fence height to 1.05m.

tepapa · Apr 12, 2022

Ffermer Bach said:
I have used creosoted posts for glastir fencing (for hedge planting). I don't think the splits hit the specifications, so have to use 3-4" rounds.

Post spec for glastir was 6.5cm diameter on top of the post, split halves don't usually meet that spec unless you find some massive ones.

Y Fan Wen · Apr 12, 2022

Wellytrack said:
Done scheme work here too. Spec is 1.8 meter UC4 posts and 2.4 Meter strainer.

Was also told creosoted post was ineligible.

cleared away some ditch that was fenced in 1962 by my father and grandfather. Wire is rotten but posts still sound.

oak posts, it's like they have turned to rock.

I have learned that I can re use these if I change to a small staple. It goes in nicely and the oak grips it better than softwood.
I do a lot of life extension of my fences by using Clipex Eco posts, replacing them as each original post fails.

DefenderDave · Apr 15, 2022

Ffermer Bach said:
I have used creosoted posts for glastir fencing (for hedge planting). I don't think the splits hit the specifications, so have to use 3-4" rounds.

we went ahead and used uc4 posts, however I’ve since spoke to a couple of people who have used creosote posts with no issue.

tepapa · Apr 15, 2022

DefenderDave said:
we went ahead and used uc4 posts, however I’ve since spoke to a couple of people who have used creosote posts with no issue.

Uc4 is the treatment spec and creosote posts meet uc4 spec so creosote are Uc4 posts.

DefenderDave · Apr 15, 2022

tepapa said:
Uc4 is the treatment spec and creosote posts meet uc4 spec so creosote are Uc4 posts.

My bad I thought uc4 was tantalised posts and creasote was something else.

tepapa · Apr 15, 2022

DefenderDave said:
My bad I thought uc4 was tantalised posts and creasote was something else.

Tanalised are referred to as Uc4 but God knows why as they don't last long enough to meet Uc4 spec.

Northeastfarmer · Apr 15, 2022

I’ve just bought 700 pressure creosoted 90mm machined posts…they had one cut in half and it had gone right through. Apparently they are made by the company that makes the telegraph poles….they certainly look excellent posts and the stench of creosote off them is unreal….time will tell whether they last

Long lasting fence posts (FG2 grant)

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