Lord King WTAF

Thats why the banks should been let go bust and then bailed out, to wipe out all these contracts

If you had let the banks go bust, people with mortgages, savings and the like would have been fudged into oblivion. How many people do you want to make penniless/homeless or destitute? How many jobs do you want folk to lose in one fell swoop? What would that do to consumer confidence and the economy? Would have made what actually happened in 2008 look like a rainy day at a picnic.
 

DaveGrohl

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cumbria
If you had let the banks go bust, people with mortgages, savings and the like would have been fudged into oblivion. How many people do you want to make penniless/homeless or destitute? How many jobs do you want folk to lose in one fell swoop? What would that do to consumer confidence and the economy? Would have made what actually happened in 2008 look like a rainy day at a picnic.
2008 isn’t finished with us yet. Part 2 is gonna be epic. And as I’ve already alluded to, this all started a while before 2008.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
If you had let the banks go bust, people with mortgages, savings and the like would have been fudged into oblivion. How many people do you want to make penniless/homeless or destitute? How many jobs do you want folk to lose in one fell swoop? What would that do to consumer confidence and the economy? Would have made what actually happened in 2008 look like a rainy day at a picnic.
Why can u never read a post properly?
I said let them go bust and THEN bail them out.
That would have wiped out goodwins £500,000 pension
Govt could then have instructed them to carry on all lending as before, but without the leeches
 

toquark

Member
Why can u never read a post properly?
I said let them go bust and THEN bail them out.
That would have wiped out goodwins £500,000 pension
Govt could then have instructed them to carry on all lending as before, but without the leeches
Other than saving the cost of Fred’s pension, what else would have changed? The problem runs much deeper than a few trough feeders at the top.
 

Top Tip.

Member
Location
highland
There was an article this week which showed that the NHS used the extra funding to increase the number of managers, with NO increase
in the number of beds. The same will happen in Cardiff, look at the number of times a replacement subsidy scheme has been put back, they don't want to make a decision - they just make excuses not to, and require more "advisers and paper shufflers" to justify it.
Our lot just form another committee anything but make a decision.
 

kiwi pom

Member
Location
canterbury NZ
Isn't that a bit like saying a farmer was doing really well until the animals got hungry in the winter because he hadn't bothered to sort the fodder out in the summer.
Not really no, every livestock farmer knows they have to sort out their winter feed but they only do it year to year. No one saw this coming, even TFF members. If they had they would have bought 2 or 3 years of fert in advance, made/bought in enough forage for years and not sold any grain at 2020/21 prices.

But as I say I don't pretend to understand it.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Other than saving the cost of Fred’s pension, what else would have changed? The problem runs much deeper than a few trough feeders at the top.
No, the problems were all at the top
No due diligence on ABN deal, they wrre focussed solely on their bonus and share options.
I remember the lectures about staying below 50% borrowed when they were at 98% borrowed.
 

essexpete

Member
Location
Essex

Nowt to do with me guv. Mervyn King was Governor of the BoE from 2003 to 2013 and presided over the start of the current mess. Him and his mates around the world created the thinking that has brought the world to this moment in time. Now it’s bad luck and mistakes in the last couple of years that’s caused the problems and definitely nowt to do with him. Nowt to do with all that money printing and absurd interest rate policy for all those years before and after 2008. Unreal.
Hit the nail.
 
The fundamental problem is that 'we' rely on 'the markets' to manage our capitalist societies but try to prevent it from working when 'we' don't like the consequences.


I would more say we don't have Capitalist Markets at all.

Lots of governments have regulation, legislation, quotas, some against imports, some against exports, some damaging internal markets, some promoting imports, some promoting exports and to cap it all not doing what they say are doing - such as recycling.

David Cameron was a good example - creating the "UK Green Economy" - which amounted to his father importing Wind Turbines.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
I would more say we don't have Capitalist Markets at all.

Lots of governments have regulation, legislation, quotas, some against imports, some against exports, some damaging internal markets, some promoting imports, some promoting exports and to cap it all not doing what they say are doing - such as recycling.

David Cameron was a good example - creating the "UK Green Economy" - which amounted to his father importing Wind Turbines.
Yes, they all get bailed out, so its socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for thr poor
 
Yes, they all get bailed out, so its socialism for the wealthy and capitalism for thr poor


That doesn't explain why HMG invested in Russian Fossil fuels rather than UK fossil fuels - that was a political choice which was not disagreed with by any Political Party in Westminster or indeed Wales or Scotland.
 
If we go back in time my understanding of banks and lending was to have some people who had money in reserve to put that into an account which paid interest whereby that money was lent out in a responsible way to people who wanted to develop their businesses etc in exchange for payment.
That got changed to something called the fractional reserve whereby for every pound the bank had invested or deposited by a customer the bank could lend that money out x 10. So if I put a pound in a bank account the bank could lend out 10 pounds. It then changed again whereby certain borrowings had to have the fractional reserve applied ie overdrafts but loans were exempt from this and banks didn’t have to hold any money deposited. Money printing had been going on throughout this.
In 2016 the fractional reserve was scrapped so the ratio of 1:10 did no longer apply they went onto the pyramid scheme where at the bottom of the triangle there was a layer of money but above that was basically printed money or electronic money which didn’t exist. Money lent out is just sent electronically as numbers on paper. When things look short at the bottom of the pyramid they print more which dilutes what there actually is. Money is made from debt not saving. Inflation erodes savings of cash. Hard to get your head around it. Lending out 10 x what’s invested dilutes it too.
Banks keep balance sheets and their assets are actually loans with interest charges which are put on their sheets as a plus or asset. These can be traded bought and sold for money, which is what caused most of the problem in 2009.
Money has no true value gold, silver ,oil, land has a true value. Look at crypto for example.
Personally I think that the boe and government have been keeping the value of sterling artificially high for the benefit of the financial system or bubble in London and they have kicked that can down the road for too many times now it’s not going much further before trouble appears.
Russia who has added to this problem seemed to know when to strike the western economies. They have a poor set of accounts but low borrowings and lower commitment to social welfare payments. They are rich in land minerals oil coal gas or let’s say energy. They are moving currency values away from artificial things to true values, hence what they are doing moving the dollar away from oil and moving their money in. They know half the American dollars in circulation are printed money probably a lot of the UKs are too.
 

toquark

Member
Stopping investment in the North Sea, stopping investment in fracking and allowing UK Oil companies to invest in Russia and import Russian fossil fuels.

Isn't it obvious ?

As regards a bung, no mistake Russian Billionaires with Houses right next to Number 10

Nicola Sturgeon went out of her way to stop North Sea investment.
This is what I can’t get my head around.

It makes you wonder if the green argument was a convenient excuse or whether there was something else going on.

As for Nicola, I strongly suspect she saw de investment in oil as another opportunity to do what she does best - produce some more hot air (and keep the greens happy who she needed to pass her budgets).
 

toquark

Member
No, the problems were all at the top
No due diligence on ABN deal, they wrre focussed solely on their bonus and share options.
I remember the lectures about staying below 50% borrowed when they were at 98% borrowed.
Agreed but it’s the policy since the banks collapsed that’s largely led to the problems we’re seeing today. This has been of the governments making, not the banks.

Greed always destroys markets, the problem was in 2008, it wasn’t allowed to destroy the market as it should have been and we still have the same people or their acolytes running the same institutions as before the crash.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,291
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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