"Improving Our Lot" - Planned Holistic Grazing, for starters..

Guleesh

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Isle of Skye
No worries!

In my opinion, having really long grass + sheep + temp electric fences.... to put it nicely, it's a shitshow 🙈🤬

🤣🤣
I don't think I said that in as many words, but that's about it -here

Haha, It was a year ago you said it but it struck a chord, and stuck with me. :ROFLMAO:

Our experience when we did run sheep with lambs on long grass was that only about one in ten of them seemed to cope with it, they produced quite acceptable lambs. If our sheep were confined all year round then we'd be obviously only be breeding from those and I don't see there'd be much issue.

Our issue is that we've got bigger problems to solve with breeding atm, the success of our sheep depends on their ability to winter. The difference between having the ability to survive on next to nothing all winter and the ability to not be a shitshow on long grass is too big.

Would need to be separate flocks on very different paths.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Weaned the lambs yesterday and the ewes will be going in here in a day or two.
I think we better count them before they go in as we may not see them for a bit.
First time in here this year, they even have trees to eat
20220622_074304.jpg
20220622_074233.jpg
20220622_074401.jpg
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
Haha, It was a year ago you said it but it struck a chord, and stuck with me. :ROFLMAO:

Our experience when we did run sheep with lambs on long grass was that only about one in ten of them seemed to cope with it, they produced quite acceptable lambs. If our sheep were confined all year round then we'd be obviously only be breeding from those and I don't see there'd be much issue.

Our issue is that we've got bigger problems to solve with breeding atm, the success of our sheep depends on their ability to winter. The difference between having the ability to survive on next to nothing all winter and the ability to not be a shitshow on long grass is too big.

Would need to be separate flocks on very different paths.

I too currently have my sheep in High covers with mobile lecy fence.

IMG_20220619_173714.jpg


Its not great

I planned for weekly moves over thé summer.

Its taken all thé juice out. Not quite a sh!t show (yet). But far from comfortable.


.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I too currently have my sheep in High covers with mobile lecy fence.

View attachment 1044420

Its not great

I planned for weekly moves over thé summer.

Its taken all thé juice out. Not quite a sh!t show (yet). But far from comfortable.


.

You get really used to "sleep-ability" I reckon.

That's the unseen perk of technosystems, the power is going out here in 10 minutes for 6 hours, and I don't care. The worst that can happen is a calf is in the next paddock looking scared when I show up tomorrow

2 years ago they would have had 70 acres of "out" to choose from, and the sleepability was not there.
 

Fenwick

Member
Location
Bretagne France
Are there lambs on them?

Yes.

You get really used to "sleep-ability" I reckon.

That's the unseen perk of technosystems, the power is going out here in 10 minutes for 6 hours, and I don't care. The worst that can happen is a calf is in the next paddock looking scared when I show up tomorrow

2 years ago they would have had 70 acres of "out" to choose from, and the sleepability was not there

This is thé case here too. But it it thé first field so if théy go backwards théy go strait into thé corridor, which then takes them round thé farm. 😅
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
we lost some grazing last year, due to a bitchy woman, not worried over it, but sheep are grazing it now, and its a complete mess, to look at, turned way less sheep, than needed, into the lot, 3 paddocks. So an unplanned mess, but could so easily been sensibly managed, all 3 paddocks have water, and sheep fenced, total 6 acres, rotationally grazed, with the correct number of sheep, it would produce a lot of grass, as it is, sheep have nibbled of the 'good bits'
Yes.



This is thé case here too. But it it thé first field so if théy go backwards théy go strait into thé corridor, which then takes them round thé farm. 😅
where ? couldn't resist that, sorry.
 

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
Can you do that total graze with ewes and lambs? Mine get incredibly fidgety if its got much stem.
How often are you moving them?
My grass is very long this year and the lambs cannot ffind their mothers without trampling much of it in the search. They also get fidgetty very quickly. An area that would normally last five days has them complaining after two. I notice that all the sheep, and cows, go straight for the seedheads.. There is nice stuff growing in the understory but they aren’t interested in that till later.What they leave behind is just flattened grass
6E1CBDAE-13D8-4B3C-A88D-F0DC94C31B0D.jpeg

Is that total grazing?
 

crashbox

Member
Livestock Farmer
My grass is very long this year and the lambs cannot ffind their mothers without trampling much of it in the search. They also get fidgetty very quickly. An area that would normally last five days has them complaining after two. I notice that all the sheep, and cows, go straight for the seedheads.. There is nice stuff growing in the understory but they aren’t interested in that till later.What they leave behind is just flattened grassView attachment 1044527
Is that total grazing?
I've had similar with youngstock on task grass, struggle to find satisfaction in that to be honest.

They need to be harvesting more of it IMO which probably means strip grazing.
 

Bowland Bob

Member
Livestock Farmer
Well, it took just under a week of not moving some sheep to grow thistles where there need have been none... but the big picture is we've just been about 5 years diligently trying to not overgraze, and tried varying residual lengths and varying rest lengths. It's been about learning how small changes in management can hugely affect what is growing and how well it is growing. We're still learning and experimenting, there's plenty of room left for improvement, which is a nice thing because we're still moving forwards at a good pace.

This photo was the 26th June 2018, although we'd already been trying to manage our grazing better with the fields and fences we already had, this was the year when we really got started properly. The same situation as this year, this had been rested since lambing to have something on the ground to get started with
View attachment 1044122
(sheep going in were new to electric hence the strimmer) this is the one taken yesterday, still a week to go before the 26thView attachment 1044124

Might not look like much to some, but the change for us has been huge, I found the desperate situation we were in years ago of watching the ground grow less and less each year mentally hard, efforts to clear rushes and moss were quite futile, experiments with lime and fertiliser pretty much completely failed.

The best part about it is it cost next to nothing to turn things around, the missing ingredient was simply timing. These days I think I'd sell all the sheep before I'd see them set stocked on this field again.

Not so sure about impressive work with sheep, it just needed us to stop, and realise we were wrecking it with sheep. The other thing worth mentioning, is we've been very careful that this field hasn't seen treated sheep within the withdrawal times of any chemical products.
So has getting the timing better reduced the amount of rush and moss aswell?

Great post by the way 👌👍
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
I've had similar with youngstock on task grass, struggle to find satisfaction in that to be honest.

They need to be harvesting more of it IMO which probably means strip grazing.
Absolutely, it is hard yakka when it gets stemmy and stringy.
Hence my year-old post that @Guleesh remembered, I ended up with the mower on the tractor as I couldn't roll it down and keep it down

Quite different after practicing the better style grazing for a season, because that stemminess just isn't there - to the same extent anyway
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
main trouble is, every season is a bit different, 1 year, to the next.

Been watching the fantastic red sunset, over Glastonbury, tonight, no doubt with the amount of 'grass' smoked there, it will look even better, to the dedicated.
It always rains at glasto, load of rollocks, people just remember the wet ones. Rain is forecast this w/end, to me, it looks very settled, but would love to be wrong.
know a few that let out land, to them, or have campsites, mate used to take 18 caravans up there, every yr, burger vans, cider shops, even lager/beers, arrive in tankers, owners there, have had a lean couple of years, 1 farm, has 400 acres of carparks.

However, for all those elderly hippies, it most definitely not regen, or holistic farming, it is in fact, hugely damaging to the soil, even more so when wet. Must admit, haven't heard the music yet.
 

Samcowman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
My grass is very long this year and the lambs cannot ffind their mothers without trampling much of it in the search. They also get fidgetty very quickly. An area that would normally last five days has them complaining after two. I notice that all the sheep, and cows, go straight for the seedheads.. There is nice stuff growing in the understory but they aren’t interested in that till later.What they leave behind is just flattened grassView attachment 1044527
Is that total grazing?
Looks about right to me. Without putting a label on it it just is what it is.
interestingly Greg Judy didn’t have much to say about Jaime Elizondo yesterday.
he did say that with the cattle we saw shifted they were about right and there was some litter there but not a third left
 

Guleesh

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Isle of Skye
So has getting the timing better reduced the amount of rush and moss aswell?

Great post by the way 👌👍
Yes it's back to the idea of not worrying about eradicating what you don't want and concentrate on making conditions favourable for what you do. Still, a bit of tweaking can speed up the process. What I think works for here, for rushes and moss is a bit of targeted management on different areas in winter. The two things need almost opposite treatment IMO.

Rush and moss seem to respond well to different winter management, rushes generally just need grazing as hard as possible in winter, if they can be hit hard early on they'll regrow and the regrowth is green and can be chewed off a bit more before spring, then the grass left to outcompete. Usually here at lambing, compromises are made somewhere, and if over grazing any areas at this time it can give a real boost to the rushes, If they eventually grow to the point of being big dead clumps then I'll cut them, but so long as they're mostly green I'll leave them.

Moss comes in if we graze down too hard early in the winter, the rain soon flattens what's left onto the ground and if the soil is near bare, then our mild wet winter weather are perfect conditions for moss that will happily grow right through. Key is to leave as much cover for as long as possible going into the winter, we can still take it right down to freshen up for spring, but best left till around March. Now that covers are up all over, the moss is generally on it's way out here, the mossy areas are shrinking annually.
 

cows sh#t me to tears

Member
Livestock Farmer
agreed, its the price of the kit, and labour, that stops us now.
most important thing now, is keeping the contractor happy, ours has dropped some farms, who still owed last years bill, and l don't blame him, this years costs will be more than last years.
several that baled and wrapped, last few years, have stopped. Heard bale/wrap, squares at £20, rounds at £14, but that's only hearsay. We have 'repaired' an older pit, 3cube concrete, and a few bits and pieces, cheaper than baling a lot. Got some hay down, didn't ask the price for that, had to be done.
The £56k, was to change, only remembered that, when someone posted £120,000, for new, that's a lot of money, got to bale a huge amount to justify that.
Quite happy to take the sheet, on/off the pit, our contractor quite happy to do 15 to 20acres, very local, doesn't need a big team.

the pit repair, was base, concrete laid in the 60's at 4inch, and been replaced several times, the back half, has perfect concrete, laid in 1955, 3ins thick, and we have same concrete, elsewhere, subjected to all lorries, tractors etc, and still fine, they obviously knew how to make it last !
I can justify it. Currently looking at a second moco. I can't justify a new one at $77k plus. But I can justify a second hand one at less than half that with only 2 seasons of work on it.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
I can justify it. Currently looking at a second moco. I can't justify a new one at $77k plus. But I can justify a second hand one at less than half that with only 2 seasons of work on it.
our 2nd hand vaderstaat drill, recouped its cost in a year. The judgement comes in what you can do yourself, with the kit, or if its left to a contractor, we are lucky here, plenty of farmers sons, looking to earn a bit 'extra' with dads kit, they are cheaper !

Its a bit more fundamental than that, unless you grow annual crops, there is a lot that can be achieved by management. Take out annual cropping, leaves mainly grass left, which, according to the sales reps/firms, needs replacing every few years, and pp is crap, which has been preached for years. The reasons to reseed, are basically 'good' grasses are eaten out, and dead. Rotational, or mob grazing, will extend their life. We strip graze, with a back fence, that back fence stops the cattle grazing back over, then, they select only the choicest grasses, which then cannot compete with the 'bad' grasses, they have a head start, simple sense really, but took yrs for me to cotton on. We have achieved good results, by very tight controlled grazing, taking older leys, right down to the soil, for 24 hrs only, the 'good' grasses, are on equal terms, with the bad.

So, now, we set stock old leys, because we have taken on new land, where elec fences, are not allowed !
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
Specializing in Lucerne hay means timely management. Last season had 3 bearing go at once on the conditioner rollers. Easily cost a days cutting. If you have a short weather window to make prime hay or 2nd grade drycow hay it can be a small fortune in that lost day. .
shite always happens, one reason contractors, with newer machines, look attractive.
and that is the downside of old kit, it breaks down, usually at the most inconvenient time.
we had a tine bearing go, in our p/harrow, went to get at it, it was under the gearbox, loads of nut/bolt removal, got down to bearing, couldn't extract it, without a 'special' tool, £456, got one made up for £50, bearings were half price, from local 'specialist' supplier, used to be express bearings, diff name now, than from dealer. Bearings went on our mower, 1 was 'special', had a groove for a circlip, find one at local main dealers ? 48 hrs delivery to dealer #####, found another bearing supplier, not specially ag suppliers, 3 on shelf, half dealer price,

But, as you say, you really don't want a breakdown, in 'action', and often you do
 

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