No-till's environmental credentials under threat...

damaged · Apr 29, 2016

I never have a problem with bydv on organically grown crops but I do suffer some infection on conventionally grown. Same can be said generally for slug damage .
Rotation / stock / manure / fertility better OR (as my agronomist thinks) the organic crops protected by all the sprayed conventional surrounding.
I have no idea but I might conceive one while partaking of some C2H5OH- compounds, in pint measures . I'll give it a go.

homefarm · Apr 29, 2016

Many years ago we ended up drilling over about six weeks in three goes 2 weeks apart due to weather.

Both times we got delayed we had drilled one field in a block,and it had emerged before the next drilling.

The early emerged fields had bad BYDV the later sown none, but the field in the next block drilled at the same time as the block with none had bad BYDV and the later sown was again clear.

Perhaps early drilling neighbours are the best BYDV control!

Brisel · Apr 29, 2016

Clive said:
I do but its mostly a complete waste of money - I have paid way more in premiums over the years than I have claimed

there is also no side effect to fully comp insurance

see where I'm going with this ??

Touché. As expected.

So why not insure third party and put the difference between that & comprehensive cover into an ISA? You don't want a big loss. Reduce that gap considerably and there's your pyrethroid sprays in the autumn. Autumn 2015 (and 2011) are the payout years.

rob1 · Apr 30, 2016

Clive said:
many generations of farmer have got by with little more

But used a plough and mixed farming so it is very different from the way the majority farm, hate insecticides with a vengeance but sometimes they are the lesser of two evils

SilliamWhale · Apr 30, 2016

Brisel said:
Touché. As expected.

So why not insure third party and put the difference between that & comprehensive cover into an ISA? You don't want a big loss. Reduce that gap considerably and there's your pyrethroid sprays in the autumn. Autumn 2015 (and 2011) are the payout years.

But if he happens to write his combine off this year he'll have a big bill with no stock of "savings" from previous

dontknowanything · Apr 30, 2016

This insurance analogy is not valid if you think insecticides are harming beneficials. It's as if taking out car insurance made you more likely to have an accident.

Feldspar · Apr 30, 2016

dontknowanything said:
It's as if taking out car insurance made you more likely to have an accident.

It might well do. In the same way that buying an avalanche airbag backpack makes you take on extra risk when skiing

dontknowanything · Apr 30, 2016

Feldspar said:
It might well do. In the same way that buying an avalanche airbag backpack makes you take on extra risk when skiing

Next you'll be telling people to put a spike on the steering wheel

Feldspar · Apr 30, 2016

dontknowanything said:
Next you'll be telling people to put a spike on the steering wheel

The insurance and driving behaviour link is not an absurd suggestion: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00140138508963157.

homefarm · Apr 30, 2016

Nature is not a perfect balance though is it.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/cycles/cycles03.htm

I am not sure if there is not a natural slug cycle a bit like the snowshoe rabbit ocelot cycle in Canada.

While we think we are in control perhaps it just depends where we are in the cycle. Like Clive we are not having to numbers we used to have, but I am not sure we have done that much different really.

DRC · Apr 30, 2016

Just for balance, I used deter on barley for the first time this year, under a plough based system, and have patches of BYDV, for the first time I can remember.
I think each season is different, and locally plough based crops look a lot better than non inversion tillage crops, especially on heavy land, two of my neighbours have gone down the non plough route, and their crops don't look great. Another neighbour has gone back to ploughing after a couple of years of min till.
I think it's horses for courses, and you need more than one tool in the box

Timbo1080 · Apr 30, 2016

Feldspar said:
It might well do. In the same way that buying an avalanche airbag backpack makes you take on extra risk when skiing

Oooohh! You just reminded me to post this....

Sorry for the deviation folks!

Feldspar · May 1, 2016

Timbo1080 said:
Oooohh! You just reminded me to post this....

Sorry for the deviation folks!

I assume you've seen the latest one:

.

Timbo1080 · May 1, 2016

Feldspar said:
I assume you've seen the latest one:

.

Yes, he's awesome. Missed out on a trip this season, so have been whiling away the time dreaming....Have you seen the GoPro Line of the Winter series?

Feldspar · May 1, 2016

Timbo1080 said:
Yes, he's awesome. Missed out on a trip this season, so have been whiling away the time dreaming....Have you seen the GoPro Line of the Winter series?

Yes, the backdrop in that video is stunning.

Timbo1080 · May 1, 2016

I wish I was that good! One more, that that scares the bejezus out of me...

rob1 · May 1, 2016

Timbo1080 said:
I wish I was that good! One more, that that scares the bejezus out of me...

cant believe he was so stupid as to be not wearing a helmet, could still see his bobble hat in the shadow at the end, was very lucky to survive that

D14 · May 2, 2016

Dan Powell said:
One to annoy the zealots...

Context: I have been attempting no-till for 3 years. This year all crops look rubbish apart from ploughed / maxi-tilled stuff. Prior to this I was plough and combi-drilling everything except catch crops which were pigtail cultivator plus combi-drill. Soil is medium sandy, clay loam - the type most of you heavy land farmers dream about. I used to consider myself a reasonably good farmer.

Never used so much round-up - bad for the environment.

Never used so many slug pellets - bad for the environment.

Never had so much BYDV - caused no doubt by the MUST DRILL EARLY mantra.

Never had so many failures. This year at least one field of spring barley to reseed so far. Wheat looks rubbish.

Struggling to see the benefits for the environment frankly, although I'll grant that the slugs are thriving.

Is it the drill?
Is it the weather?
Is it the management?
Will it get easier?

Never had so much stress and the cost of round-up, pellets and extra seed would easily pay for the extra establishment cost of ploughing.

Seriously thinking about reverting to the old system. Especially as no-one has yet proved that no-till increases net organic carbon, but rather just stratifies it.

Discuss.

No point sticking to a system because it's the current trend as that won't pay the bills. In 20 yrs of looking at and using direct drilling in various forms my conclusion is you use it where it's appropriate.

So for example if your coming out of linseed into wheat then do it as the linseed will leave the soil in perfect shape for direct drilling. On the flip side trying to direct drill wheat into an osr stubble is madness due to the slugs. Likewise a cereal after a cereal is a bad idea. Osr into wheat is fine but use strip till for helping the tap root. Wheat after beans is ok sometimes depending on soil type.

Get equipped with subsoiler and seeder for osr and beans, then get a drill that will direct drill but will also work on cultivated soils. And get a shallow cultivator to work in conjunction with the subsoiler.

Flat 10 · May 4, 2016

Feldspar said:
I think managers, such as @Brisel, who are working for other people cannot afford to have flights of fantasy into the unknown without very good evidence. If you're going to challenge the conventional wisdom, you'd better be right because being controversially wrong is something that does not do a great deal for your career prospects and is a lot worse than being uncontroversially wrong.

And maybe tenants on high rents contract farmers who have very little wriggle room for any thing not going 100%?

Barry · May 5, 2016

A general comment on Deter availability this autumn. Some of you will have been affected by shortages of Deter in some of the past seasons.

At the moment we are not expecting there to be a shortage, however.... we are seeing a lot of symptoms of BYDV this year and it was also very noticeable that in some areas the slug activity of Deter was very useful in reducing slug damage early on.

So I am expecting an increase in Deter usage, if.... this turns into a sizeable increase in demand then we may see some tightness in supply. But at the moment things look ok.

On the Fluquinconazole front (Galmano/Jockey etc) - we (and others) had to commit to stock as this product is no longer in production. Again there is a fair amount of Yellow Rust about this year and supplies will be ok for a normal year of demand but not if there is a significant increase. Yellow Rust susceptible varieties such as Reflection should be targeted and those of you who want Fluquin for some Take All control would be advised to not leave it the week before you want it to order.

Barry

No-till's environmental credentials under threat...

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