Changing sheep breeds

spin cycle · Apr 30, 2016

SheepFarmer10 said:
So if you end up with lambs just as wooly as normal, won't they be as susceptible to blowfly as normal lambs.

Big own goal if you ask me.

Blowfly control doesn't cost a lot for ewes anyway.

i treat my shedders for blowfly ...but they're definitly easier to keep....i have both but if i could have a flock of sheders that didn't look like sheders it would be ideal

i don't know why they're easier particularly ...but they just are

Bones · Apr 30, 2016

Cab-over Pete said:
I'm not starting a woolly sheep/shedding sheep argument, just saying what I saw.

I'm sure they're good sheep, but I don't like like the look of even a great flock. If all you want is to make money I'm sure they're great, but if I wanted to make money and enjoy looking at my flock, I don't think I would keep them.

I understand where you are coming from , I have fields full of winter shorn mule ewes at the moment rearing two lambs and no grass , all bones, not a pretty sight

S J H · Apr 30, 2016

Cab-over Pete said:
Surely wool shedders still grow wool, it just sheds.

I was up north a few weeks ago and walked a field with about 100 or so Easycares and lambs. I thought they looked shocking. The lambs didn't look to be thriving, neither the ewes. A dozen or so were extremely lame and I could see a couple had infected udders. As soon as I got a plastic bag from my pocket to take a soil sample their ears pricked up. They knew what a bag was even though the owner claimed everything he did was off grass.

I'm no expert, but I wasn't impressed at all.

I don't think I could farm them and enjoy having a walk around

did you find any hidden creep feeders?

Bury the Trash · Apr 30, 2016

Bones said:
That's what I do at the moment , winter shearing, means ewes are housed a long time , and it was a bad spring to be turning out ewes , but it does work , its all up in the air yet I might never change my system, its just housed ewes cost money, only concern I would have with easycares would they be as attentive as say a scotch mule . and how Hardy they would be . most reports on here are good , as said before I would use some kind of terminal sire on them, wounder do they have a wide birth canal like a mule ? ... I have no knowledge of the breed at all

Mules are very easy lambers,
what type Rams do you use at the moment?
How harsh are your winter weather conditions /

Bones · Apr 30, 2016

Bury the Trash said:
Mules are very easy lambers,
what type Rams do you use at the moment?
How harsh are your winter weather conditions /

800 hundred above sea level , wind swept only one field with good shelter , all reclaimed bog ,use a hill type north country cheviot ram to breed any replacements and buy some scotch mules as well , the texel ram works well to , I give a new Zealand Suffolk a go this year as well

Nithsdale · Apr 30, 2016

Woolless said:
I'm sure I could find a field of Hampshires which looked like that somewhere! Sounds like they are just bad sheep, poorly managed.

I think @ Nithsdale Farmer expounded the benefits of a shedding ewe as well as I could.

Just what iv gleaned off here. I don't have any, in fact I dont think iv ever seen any in the flesh before...

I like what wool shedders offer, and I can see the (potentially huge) benefits. But I'm yet to be convinced. Through the live ring I'd get crucified with pures, and I'm pretty sure my processor wouldn't want them either - so iv effectively no market. And as said above, they are abit ugly (I KNOW that shouldn't matter, but I don't think I'd be 'proud' to show them off to anyone).

neilo · Apr 30, 2016

Nithsdale Farmer said:
Just what iv gleaned off here. I don't have any, in fact I dont think iv ever seen any in the flesh before...

I like what wool shedders offer, and I can see the (potentially huge) benefits. But I'm yet to be convinced. Through the live ring I'd get crucified with pures, and I'm pretty sure my processor wouldn't want them either - so iv effectively no market. And as said above, they are abit ugly (I KNOW that shouldn't matter, but I don't think I'd be 'proud' to show them off to anyone).

I'm in the same position. I'm quite recptive to the idea of doing away with wool, but not convinced yet. The centre of my farm is old parkland with a busy footpath right through it on the drive. I'm concerned as to how the shed wool/hair from a decent number would be received.

As to looks, aren't a lot of them quite similar in appearance to the Lleyn, just without the fleece? IIRC @Tim W mentioned the Exlana was based on the Lleyn. :scratchhead:

SheepFarmer10 · Apr 30, 2016

spin cycle said:
i treat my shedders for blowfly ...but they're definitly easier to keep....i have both but if i could have a flock of sheders that didn't look like sheders it would be ideal

i don't know why they're easier particularly ...but they just are

Well we have quite a few ewes here and we don't treat any of them for blowfly before or after they are sheared. Blowfly is not a problem for us in ewes.

We have very few stuck on their backs although it does seem this can be a problem for others but it's not for us.

A well thought out anthelmintic regime limits the amount of dagging/crutching as we seldom have epidemics of dirty sheep.

Our wool cheque is substantial and easy covers what it costs us to shear. We would miss that cheque if it disappeared.

The lambs are awkward to sell from wool shedders unless you have a reliable deadweight outlet.

And as soon as you put a terminal sire on a easycare ewe it loses a lot of the benefits they are supposedly famed for.

As far as ease of lambing goes there are plenty of others that will match wool shedders for that.

And plenty of other breeds that will out perform them in terms of growth.

So it's going to take a lot to convince me. Even if there are a few on here who have hoodwinked themselves, and believed a well thought out marketing ploy by easycare breeders.

It's horses for courses at the end of the day. That's why there is no right or wrong answer for this thread.

Man_in_black · Apr 30, 2016

Lleyn

(Default)

Poorbuthappy · Apr 30, 2016

SheepFarmer10 said:
Well we have quite a few ewes here and we don't treat any of them for blowfly before or after they are sheared. Blowfly is not a problem for us in ewes.

We have very few stuck on their backs although it does seem this can be a problem for others but it's not for us.

A well thought out anthelmintic regime limits the amount of dagging/crutching as we seldom have epidemics of dirty sheep.

Our wool cheque is substantial and easy covers what it costs us to shear. We would miss that cheque if it disappeared.

The lambs are awkward to sell from wool shedders unless you have a reliable deadweight outlet.

And as soon as you put a terminal sire on a easycare ewe it loses a lot of the benefits they are supposedly famed for.

As far as ease of lambing goes there are plenty of others that will match wool shedders for that.

And plenty of other breeds that will out perform them in terms of growth.

So it's going to take a lot to convince me. Even if there are a few on here who have hoodwinked themselves, and believed a well thought out marketing ploy by easycare breeders.

It's horses for courses at the end of the day. That's why there is no right or wrong answer for this thread.

It'll depend on where 'here' is as to relevant a lot of those comparisons are - being on the side of a mountain at 1 to the acre would explain your 1st 3 points.

Just saying. ..

neilo · Apr 30, 2016

Poorbuthappy said:
It'll depend on where 'here' is as to relevant a lot of those comparisons are - being on the side of a mountain at 1 to the acre would explain your 1st 3 points.

Just saying. ..

We are not on the side of a mountain, or even much of an incline, but we get very few ewes getting cast, despite being in full fleece into August/September. I also very rarely have to dag a dirty sheep these days. That's with Highlander ewes, that are quite heavily fleeced and broad backed.

SheepFarmer10 · Apr 30, 2016

Poorbuthappy said:
It'll depend on where 'here' is as to relevant a lot of those comparisons are - being on the side of a mountain at 1 to the acre would explain your 1st 3 points.

Just saying. ..

Ha yeah well I don't think the side of a mountain will ever be a place for wool shedders.

My points 1,2,3 are just as relevant for mules in my experience.

And what about the other 5 points I mentioned. [emoji3]

CopperBeech · May 1, 2016

Bones said:
That's what I do at the moment , winter shearing, means ewes are housed a long time , and it was a bad spring to be turning out ewes , but it does work , its all up in the air yet I might never change my system, its just housed ewes cost money, only concern I would have with easycares would they be as attentive as say a scotch mule . and how Hardy they would be . most reports on here are good , as said before I would use some kind of terminal sire on them, wounder do they have a wide birth canal like a mule ? ... I have no knowledge of the breed at all

Currently running a sh!t ton of mules, and a couple of hundred wool shedders. Id say they are as hardy as a mule, hardier if bred right, and again if bred right, probably more consistently maternal. Still get some right barstewards, but generally very good. They seem to lamb fine, this year have had the odd backwards pull or tangled triplets, but even ewe lambs mostly lamb ok, unless lambs get too big.

Tim W · May 1, 2016

Bones said:
Thinking of changing my sheep breed from mule and mule x ,and trying wool shedding easy care type ewes, a lot of my ewes are getting old ,so this would be a good year to change . is there any breed of sheep you could compare them with so I could have some idea what I'm getting into , I know there will be differences with in any breed and how they are culled. But just a rough idea ?

I get asked this question a bit-----

Roughly I compare my shedding sheep to Lleyns---(that's the 60/65kg maternal type Lleyn that thrives on grass)
The difference is that you don't have a fleece to shear (or sell)
You don't have the dagging
There is no need for tail mutilations
You will have a lot less fly prevention to do (fly sprays cost about 8p/week/head in drugs. That's before labour etc)

I would say the only way to progress is to try a few and see how you get on ----most people who try them come back for more and remark that they don't know why didn't change sooner

There are plenty of shedding sheep kept in all sorts of conditions including the side of a mountain, a common mistake is to think that they shed to bare skin just like a shorn woolly sheep. This isn't the case, like a dog or deer they moult/shed to leave a thin undercoat of hair which protects them from the elements (mine have been shedding for the last month or so and are thriving ---unlike some early shorn mules I see daily that are suffering ). Best to think of them as hair sheep rather than woolly sheep

They are a popular choice with those who have other things to do than just shepherd full time as they are less hassle in general

CharcoalWally · May 1, 2016

DO

Woolless said:
I'm sure I could find a field of Hampshires which looked like that somewhere! Sounds like they are just bad sheep, poorly managedI think @ Nithsdale Farmer expounded the benefits of a shedding ewe as well as I could.

But surely the benefits of these breeds as expounded time and time again on here is that they require so much less management?

An easycare sheep that needs time spent on feet and mastitis treatment is completely failing in the stated objectives thereof. That's no different to many standard sheep.

Poorbuthappy · May 1, 2016

SheepFarmer10 said:
Ha yeah well I don't think the side of a mountain will ever be a place for wool shedders.

My points 1,2,3 are just as relevant for mules in my experience.

And what about the other 5 points I mentioned. [emoji3]

My post was only a tongue in cheek dig at your lack of location in your profile, and the effect location has on farming style.

I don't have shedders, but am rather more open minded to the idea.

Your other points, since you ask...

There's a lot more cost to wool than the cost of a shearer - you acknowledge others get more cast losses for a start. The wool may or may not cover them all but it's hardly a big earner at best and a cost at worst.
Getting shearers is getting harder and harder too.

The op said he was going to put terminal on them so selling outlet wouldn't be a problem for him. Many people sell dw only anyway so it wouldn't be an issue at all.

Not sure how you lose so many benefits by putting a terminal on them? Personally I'd want to breed my own replacements so would breed the best pure but each to their own. With the right terminal I don't suspect blowfly issues would be so much different in the lambs - many shedder flocks treat lambs to some extent I understand.

Ease of lambing - agree with you 110%

Growth - in maternal breeds, I suspect there's as much difference within a breed as between breeds. Personally I'd want to be buying recorded rams.

Not trying to pick a fight - just sat here with time to kill as laid up with gall stones and personally quite interested in the whole subject.
As you say horses for courses.

baabaa · May 1, 2016

CharcoalWally said:
DO

But surely the benefits of these breeds as expounded time and time again on here is that they require so much less management?

An easycare sheep that needs time spent on feet and mastitis treatment is completely failing in the stated objectives thereof. That's no different to many standard sheep.

read again what it says on the tin
EASYCARE not no care!

Wooly · May 1, 2016

Always a lot talked about shedding sheep, but no one ever appears to add any photos on the subject....

.........do they look that bad !!

The more people that go for these goats, I mean sheep, the more my quality Romney wool will be worth !

Ysgythan · May 1, 2016

There are two flocks of easy cares between here and my outlaws' place.

The first one is run by a semi retired farmer who needs something to check on so he can call into the pub on the way home. Having run a flock of early lambers with his dairy herd he's a good stockman but has arthritic hands so easy cares suit him down to the ground. On good red sandstone ground they do well and are a credit to him. Takes a hit at the mart but has factored that in and has the zeal of a convert.

The other is two miles away, but up on the hillside on limestone. These are owned by somebody who recently bought the farm, that I understand is a fellow part timer. I presume the difference in soil and climate account for the difference in the sheep

The hoggs were turned to the hill unhefted over winter and just wander about by the roads looking painfully thin and morose. Last summer the ewes didn't all shed as they weren't in good enough nick.

I suppose the moral is that they require less care not no care, that good management will bring rewards but there is an inevitable compromise in lamb value on the pure breds.

A good peeling Texel should help out on the lamb price if you're crossing though...

neilo · May 1, 2016

Ysgythan said:
There are two flocks of easy cares between here and my outlaws' place.

The first one is run by a semi retired farmer who needs something to check on so he can call into the pub on the way home. Having run a flock of early lambers with his dairy herd he's a good stockman but has arthritic hands so easy cares suit him down to the ground. On good red sandstone ground they do well and are a credit to him. Takes a hit at the mart but has factored that in and has the zeal of a convert.

The other is two miles away, but up on the hillside on limestone. These are owned by somebody who recently bought the farm, that I understand is a fellow part timer. I presume the difference in soil and climate account for the difference in the sheep The hoggs were turned to the hill unhefted over winter and just wander about by the roads looking painfully thin and morose. Last summer the ewes didn't all shed as they weren't in good enough nick.

I suppose the moral is that they require less care not no care, that good management will bring rewards but there is an inevitable compromise in lamb value on the pure breds.

A good peeling Texel should help out on the lamb price if you're crossing though...

I think @MJT had one of those for a while........

I agree though, all sheep can be managed badly. If you're second guy ran any flock like that, they'd end up similar I suspect. Shedding sheep look worse because they don't hide it under a thick coat, but it doesn't mean a wooly sheep is in any better condition sometimes.

I can't see why any terminal sire x lamb on a shedder would sell any worse, unless it was sold as a hogget and it had started shedding, or sold as a store and it started shedding before the buyer sold it.

@willy changed from mules to easycares in a big way didn't he? He's been very open with the results and seems very happy with the change.

Changing sheep breeds

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