Best crop to follow 2 year ley

Dan Powell

Member
Location
Shropshire
We have a two year Italian ryegrass and red clover ley that I want to put back to arable. Will be grazing it until the end of October.

The obvious crop is beans but it's over gravel and beans might struggle in a dry time. Would a November drilling slot be OK for winter oats if I broadcast some CAN or something to get it going or am I asking for problems, grass weeds etc.

Any other options? Don't want wheat as plenty going in already.

Not doing linseed as can't see a profit and zero experience.

Maize would work if tilling but probably not no till.
 

martian

DD Moderator
BASE UK Member
Location
N Herts
Id still do wheat. Leave the others for breaks

We've had a lot of very poor wheat crops behind 2 year leys, you'd think we'd learn, but we've tried all sorts of different approaches: when to destroy ley, very high seed-rates, various starter fertilisers, and we always get disappointed. So my advice (and I think this is the first time I've disagreed with him, apart from the colour of the mankini he wore at the wedding) is to ignore Will. Oats mght work and would swamp grass-weeds well, then you'd get a good wheat in behind them.
 

Dan Powell

Member
Location
Shropshire
Is November too late to direct drill oats though? I could get a decent seed contract on them but no point if they won't grow. I could always plough it to guarantee success...
 

Jim Bullock

Never Forgotten
Honorary Member
I would go for oats...most winter varieties can be planted right through to March or even even early April. We find oats are very vigorous rooters and are able to thrive in less than ideal conditions. There is quite a good market for oat straw which can improve the crops margin by £30+\acre.
 

pear

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Hertfordshire
We've had a lot of very poor wheat crops behind 2 year leys, you'd think we'd learn, but we've tried all sorts of different approaches: when to destroy ley, very high seed-rates, various starter fertilisers, and we always get disappointed. So my advice (and I think this is the first time I've disagreed with him, apart from the colour of the mankini he wore at the wedding) is to ignore Will. Oats mght work and would swamp grass-weeds well, then you'd get a good wheat in behind them.
@martian in what way have you had poor crops of wheat? I've got a 2yr ley to go into wheat and first time dd. Having always mintilled it or ploughed after a ley, I've always had a good wheat crop after grass, so would be interested to hear any downsides to DD'ing wheat after grass.
 

damaged

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
20160809_134145.jpg

Oats planted December 5th.
 

damaged

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
20160815_121143.jpg

Wheat DD after 3yr red clover/ryegrass. Planted too late on November 5th and too low a seed rate. 200kgha. Oats were excellent (ploughed though) and wheat was poor. Clover understory was no problem except green in the straw.
 

Dan Powell

Member
Location
Shropshire
@damaged thanks for those. I'd be pretty comfortable sowing either wheat or oats well into November when ploughing. Have had good crops of wheat after beet in the past when sowing late. It's the whole DD thing I'm unsure of in this case.
 

martian

DD Moderator
BASE UK Member
Location
N Herts
@martian in what way have you had poor crops of wheat? I've got a 2yr ley to go into wheat and first time dd. Having always mintilled it or ploughed after a ley, I've always had a good wheat crop after grass, so would be interested to hear any downsides to DD'ing wheat after grass.
Wheat just doesn't seem to like following grass under dd, here anyway. It seems other people don't have this problem, but it's always at least half an tonne an acre less than any other first wheats we grow. We don't like using insecticide, and anyway dursban is thankfully off the menu now, but wireworm has been a problem. Also, I suspect I'm being a bit laissez-faire about compaction...the contractors who harvest the grass have a fleet of small lorries etc which hurtle about willy-nilly taking their 2 or 3 cuts a year. If it's wet, you can imagine that this will squash the soil a bit, but IRG has a massive root system and we allow it to grow on a bit after the last cut, to open the soil up again rather than busting. This is fine in theory, but just doesn't yield results, or wheat.
 
Wheat just doesn't seem to like following grass under dd, here anyway. It seems other people don't have this problem, but it's always at least half an tonne an acre less than any other first wheats we grow. We don't like using insecticide, and anyway dursban is thankfully off the menu now, but wireworm has been a problem. Also, I suspect I'm being a bit laissez-faire about compaction...the contractors who harvest the grass have a fleet of small lorries etc which hurtle about willy-nilly taking their 2 or 3 cuts a year. If it's wet, you can imagine that this will squash the soil a bit, but IRG has a massive root system and we allow it to grow on a bit after the last cut, to open the soil up again rather than busting. This is fine in theory, but just doesn't yield results, or wheat.

What about OSR after grass? Or is slugs too much of a problem?
 

damaged

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
DD wheat after grass looks ideal on paper but we too had poor yields. I'm guessing waiting for a third cut in October before planting is not an option. I will try again but drilling with DAP and prilled lime, hopefully blended with seed down spout. Slugs dont seem to be an issue though after grass.
I believe another thead here suggested second year wheat may allow more nutrients to be available from grass roots. :scratchhead:
 

will86

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Wiltshire
Wheat just doesn't seem to like following grass under dd, here anyway. It seems other people don't have this problem, but it's always at least half an tonne an acre less than any other first wheats we grow. We don't like using insecticide, and anyway dursban is thankfully off the menu now, but wireworm has been a problem. Also, I suspect I'm being a bit laissez-faire about compaction...the contractors who harvest the grass have a fleet of small lorries etc which hurtle about willy-nilly taking their 2 or 3 cuts a year. If it's wet, you can imagine that this will squash the soil a bit, but IRG has a massive root system and we allow it to grow on a bit after the last cut, to open the soil up again rather than busting. This is fine in theory, but just doesn't yield results, or wheat.


Did you have the field tested for p&k levels?
We do a similar rotation with Italian rye grass and red clover and after two years of 3 cuts a year it's surprising how much is taken up by these crops
 

Louis Mc

Member
Location
Meath, Ireland
Cut wheat wheat yesterday no-tilled into 6 year ley. Did 4 ton/acre in a pretty horrible field. It will be some of our top yielding wheat, not as good as wheat after beans but about the same as wheat after oats and maize. I'd be happy enough to do it again, I think in a better field it would have done 4.5
 

martian

DD Moderator
BASE UK Member
Location
N Herts
Did you have the field tested for p&k levels?
We do a similar rotation with Italian rye grass and red clover and after two years of 3 cuts a year it's surprising how much is taken up by these crops
No, but the problem is normally thin crops which look like they're due to wet feet or pest attack. Then the volunteer IRG moves in. Maybe it's just we're crap farmers...our horsage buyer has sacked us, so will have to think of something else to grow. I favour 4 year herbal leys and lots more cattle, which might give us even more trouble coming out.
 

tr250

Member
Location
Northants
How does the soil behave / look like after a 2 year ley? Does it look sad, or does it look like it'll grow a cracking crop of pretty much anything?
It's usually very dry and hard with a lot of fibreous roots in it but it is usually depleted of nutrients ours usually grows a very good yield but low protein wheat under conventional tillage
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 77 43.5%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 62 35.0%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 28 15.8%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,285
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top