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Ford Prefect · Jan 24, 2017

Looking for a drill that will disturb less soil than my current tine drill and will allow me to work in min till and direct drill. I have tried and like the soil engaging part of the 750A but find the rest of the drill pretty outdated. Also small hopper and a pain to calibrate and work on. At LAMMA on a research trip for a drill I came across the Avatar. Looks like a me too 750A in terms of the soil engaging parts but with a bigger hopper and a more up to date mechanism for seed metering. Does anyone have any experience of this drill. I have hopefully got a demo arranged for this spring.

Tractor Boy · Jan 24, 2017

I think the soil openers are quite a close copy to the JD. Rumour was that in dry conditions it struggles to penetrate the ground but I have no experience of it myself and haven't seen one working. The hopper size of a JD is easily sorted out but yes you are right about calibration and working on them.

Ford Prefect · Jan 24, 2017

As a DD virgin apart from my play with the 750A after last harvest it seems to me that what makes the JD drill is its openers. Now along comes a drill with almost identical openers from a manufacturer who has a good reputation for ensuring their kit is well tested and addresses most of the issues that John Deere does not seem particularly bothered about sorting out. Don't get me wrong we run John Deere tractors and combine but if you cut me I don't bleed green! Most of the support and development work seems to have come from elsewhere. At the end of the day my buying decisions will come down to can it do the job how much does it cost and will I get good back up. In the case of the 750A if it fails on all of these I can always sell it for a good price.

Timbo1080 · Jan 24, 2017

Have a close look at the seed firming wheel.....I don't think it's adequate. The firming wheel on the 750a makes it the drill that it is, imo.
Had a good look at the Avatar, but didn't demo. It's priced to compete with the 750a, and has a Fertilizer option too.

Ford Prefect · Jan 24, 2017

Thanks Timbo. I will have a good look when it comes on demo. I must admit to being impressed with the way the 750A firmed the soil around the seed when we had it here. I note the fertiliser goes down the same tube as the seed on the Avatar which can lead to scorching although the Horsch expert said at normal rates it would not.

Timbo1080 · Jan 24, 2017

Ford Prefect said:
Thanks Timbo. I will have a good look when it comes on demo. I must admit to being impressed with the way the 750A firmed the soil around the seed when we had it here. I note the fertiliser goes down the same tube as the seed on the Avatar which can lead to scorching although the Horsch expert said at normal rates it would not.

We blow DAP down the seed tubes on our 750a and haven't yet seen any evidence of scorch-But haven't had it long. Might be a bit different with AN. Risk could be mitigated with Urea? The Horsch agronomist in Bavaria said that they'd not encountered any seed scorch & they use a hell of a lot in their winter crops to get the crop nice and forward going into the winter, since their temps get so low.
Would be very interested to see how you get along with the Avatar demo. Please keep us posted.

SilliamWhale · Jan 24, 2017

Ford Prefect said:
Thanks Timbo. I will have a good look when it comes on demo. I must admit to being impressed with the way the 750A firmed the soil around the seed when we had it here. I note the fertiliser goes down the same tube as the seed on the Avatar which can lead to scorching although the Horsch expert said at normal rates it would not.

Ive placed dry fert down the spout with the 750. I think the only time i suspect ive sc9rched is when i put urea and brassica seed down

Ford Prefect · Jan 24, 2017

I intend to split the field in half when we have our demo if it turns up at the right time to sow our spring barley. Half with A/S fert and half without. I will report it all back here.

Tractor Boy · Jan 24, 2017

Timbo1080 said:
We blow DAP down the seed tubes on our 750a and haven't yet seen any evidence of scorch-But haven't had it long. Might be a bit different with AN. Risk could be mitigated with Urea? The Horsch agronomist in Bavaria said that they'd not encountered any seed scorch & they use a hell of a lot in their winter crops to get the crop nice and forward going into the winter, since their temps get so low.
Would be very interested to see how you get along with the Avatar demo. Please keep us posted.

Did you say you use tech grade DAP? If so what sort of rates is that at?

Timbo1080 · Jan 24, 2017

Tractor Boy said:
Did you say you use tech grade DAP? If so what sort of rates is that at?

No, standard DAP. Usually 167kgs/ha....

Tractor Boy · Jan 24, 2017

Timbo1080 said:
No, standard DAP. Usually 167kgs/ha....

Oh ok. You've obviously got a larger split hopper. I've forgotten who it is that puts tech DAP down with the seed.

Timbo1080 · Jan 24, 2017

Tractor Boy said:
Oh ok. You've obviously got a larger split hopper. I've forgotten who it is that puts tech DAP down with the seed.

Horstine front hopper, piped to the drill for the DAP, blowing it into the seed flow immediately post metering. It all then blows up to the distribution heads & out to the coulters.

SilliamWhale · Jan 24, 2017

Ford Prefect said:
I intend to split the field in half when we have our demo if it turns up at the right time to sow our spring barley. Half with A/S fert and half without. I will report it all back here.

Sod it just sow it all with fert. Its not going to be wasted and a/s with spring barley gives it a great start.

Timbo1080 · Jan 24, 2017

Ford Prefect said:
I intend to split the field in half when we have our demo if it turns up at the right time to sow our spring barley. Half with A/S fert and half without. I will report it all back here.

OR....blow A/S on half of the field down the pipe with the seed, and spin the same amount of A/S on the other half of the field a couple of days pre-drilling (Weather etc permitting)....

Johndeere · Jan 24, 2017

How about trying the Sumo DD, happy to bring one to demo 07967201552

dontknowanything · Jan 25, 2017

We drilled 200ha with the Avatar in 2016. It worked very well until the last field, when it would not go in the ground, and to be honest the conditions were not that hard. At the time Horsch were not very familiar with the machine, as we were the first people to use it. They say now that the settings were not right, and it is possible to put on more down pressure. I personally don't believe this is correct, as in our case there was enough pressure to lift the drill off the ground on the discs but they only penetrated maybe 1cm max. However they may be correct in saying there was a problem, I don't know. I believe it is the bigger discs which are causing a problem, I have asked whether they could supply slightly smaller discs as an option, but they don't want to.

It is a shame as I agree the machine is intrinsically better than the 750a in every way apart from getting seed in to the ground, which is what matters the most at the end of the day...

Ford Prefect · Jan 25, 2017

Timbo1080 said:
OR....blow A/S on half of the field down the pipe with the seed, and spin the same amount of A/S on the other half of the field a couple of days pre-drilling (Weather etc permitting)....

That was the plan.

Ford Prefect · Jan 25, 2017

dontknowanything said:
We drilled 200ha with the Avatar in 2016. It worked very well until the last field, when it would not go in the ground, and to be honest the conditions were not that hard. At the time Horsch were not very familiar with the machine, as we were the first people to use it. They say now that the settings were not right, and it is possible to put on more down pressure. I personally don't believe this is correct, as in our case there was enough pressure to lift the drill off the ground on the discs but they only penetrated maybe 1cm max. However they may be correct in saying there was a problem, I don't know. I believe it is the bigger discs which are causing a problem, I have asked whether they could supply slightly smaller discs as an option, but they don't want to.

It is a shame as I agree the machine is intrinsically better than the 750a in every way apart from getting seed in to the ground, which is what matters the most at the end of the day...

I did not realise there was a difference in disc size by how much? Are the angles different as well? Did you have the weights on the machine as they had at LAMMA? Sorry lots of questions but I am keen to get this right and the rest of the Avatar seems a great improvement over the 750A but at the end of the day it has to get the seed in the ground. Great trial by the way. I assume you ended up with the John Deere?

Ford Prefect · Jan 25, 2017

Johndeere said:
How about trying the Sumo DD, happy to bring one to demo 07967201552

Thanks your kit is all very well made. I have seen your drill but I am looking for a narrower row spacing with less soil disturbance but I will bear your offer in mind.

dontknowanything · Jan 25, 2017

Ford Prefect said:
I did not realise there was a difference in disc size by how much? Are the angles different as well? Did you have the weights on the machine as they had at LAMMA? Sorry lots of questions but I am keen to get this right and the rest of the Avatar seems a great improvement over the 750A but at the end of the day it has to get the seed in the ground. Great trial by the way. I assume you ended up with the John Deere?

Yes, it was fully weighted, I seem to remember it was something like 250kg per opener? I think there's a thread on here somewhere about it. IIRC the disc is about 1.5" bigger than a 750a, I don't know about the angles although I think they are the same. Sorry, I'm not an expert on it at all, although was very interested last year.

We should be taking delivery of a 750a tomorrow afternoon, a decision made somewhat in light of our trial, although not completely by any means.

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