store lambs the end is nigh

Or a move to genetics that need less mollycoddling than some of the stock about now?:scratchhead:
We know eachother and our systems, but ultimately some like myself are doing too much, but im on young leys at an expense, which are fed fert another expense, sheep nor lambs fed barely. But if I swapped to your types my life would be easier, but would I increase output? Saving on fert and younger leys possibly offset by longer keeping of lambs, added expense then to cattle possibly? Not sure to be honest, but I doubt on my place a change of genetics would increase output or profitability, although would agree when it comes to point of extra staff
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
We know eachother and our systems, but ultimately some like myself are doing too much, but im on young leys at an expense, which are fed fert another expense, sheep nor lambs fed barely. But if I swapped to your types my life would be easier, but would I increase output? Saving on fert and younger leys possibly offset by longer keeping of lambs, added expense then to cattle possibly? Not sure to be honest, but I doubt on my place a change of genetics would increase output or profitability, although would agree when it comes to point of extra staff

Why would it necessarily mean less reseeding or less fert, or longer keeping of lambs? That's pasture management, not genetics. There's no reason you can't manage pasture well and grow lambs fast, with sheep that require less labour input.
I wouldn't rate your ewe genetics as being particularly labour intensive, more the idea of keeping terminal cross (or 3/4+ terminal) ewes, which require more labour intervention at lambing, watching for getting cast, etc. Some might argue (probably correctly) that extra input is worthwhile if they can get £90 for a fat lamb, but if the they are making £60 as suggested above.....
 
Generally, though may being swayed by cattle genetics, more confirmation driven lambs produced from larger ewes, to hopefully get lambs away quickly require young sugar rich pastures, which I know you know. I know well grazed pastures are more responsive but a well grazed younger pasture will obviously give a better response than a well grazed older one. Im probably confusing more the easy care types which I cant see getting the weight gains of 40k in 12 weeks, which is as you say pointless if you either cant get the 90 pound lamb, and funnily enough not too many years back 106 -116 easily achieved in may, or as in my case heavily stocked so ewes can be shut up on nothing to allow ewe lambs or cows and calves or store cattle to gain the rewards
 
To be fair its the system. Like to think I carry decent breeding stock, where an eye is more important than a body if that makes sense? Around me are 4 big feeding lots finishing 3-5000 head a year. Good feed set up but simple, one has cattle in all year round, 2000 ish at any point, one man job, with contractors silaging and muck spreading. Problem with them and staff is they get bored the tell me. That is great efficiency with use of machinery and staff and agree with your point completely, breeding stock I would argue a different ball game? My fault/ issue, just like doing what I do, and farm to farm not make a fortune, but getting to a point of a compromise one way or another will have to be made

roughly speaking how many suckler cows with calves sold store at 20 months would 2000 fattening cattle equate to in profit?
 

gatepost

Member
Location
Cotswolds
So what , 1999?

Your then employer should have thanked you profusely and kissed your feet @Poorbuthappy .

December 1999 , I sold damn good quality Charollais X lambs in the store ring for the princely sum of £25.20. My mule wethers were cashed in at £19.60 When the hammer went down on the last lot , my auctioneer bent forward and said that was going to be a good trade on that day!

The arse was completely out of the trade. However , diary for that day , I remarked that trade was "excellent." It was "going up." Both mules and Charollais were £5 up on the year ,so 1998 cashed @ £20 and £14 respectively. We were a simple people in these days. :rolleyes:

Yes yes CharcoalWally I hear you mutter , but the rest of the 90's was fab , wasn't it , a decade of opportunity and entrepreneurial derring do , where the dashing bright young things flourished you murmur into your fresh orange and lemonades.....

Well , let's see.

December 1990 , Friday 7th , "bitterly cold , miserable day at mart." "Trade very poor , diabolical." Two small cuts of fat lambs as they were called back then , £35.50 , £31.80. I think they topped a small show of fat lambs at our local mart that day. Old ewes , £11.20 and £8 - I remember standing in the ring and being pleasantly surprised , they'd surpassed my pathetically low expectations. Most of the earlier Autumn lambs had averaged £35.

January 1991 , store ring , mule wethers , £26.50 , Charollais lambs , £29.60 , Suffolks , £29.20. "Not too bad."

December 1992 , store ring , Charollais lambs , £28. "Really pleased. These lambs have sold better than the fat trade."

January 1993 , store ring , Charollais/B du Maine hoggs , £27.50 , Mules , £27. "Tremendous." (y)
December 1993 , fat ring , average £37.31, 88p/kg. Old ewes , £25. God , '93 ended well.

December 1994. Store ring. £45. Old mule ewes , £29.
January 1995 , the wee store hoggs averaged £35. Hmm , might order a sports car.

December 1995 , all lambs , fat and store , averaged £40.

December 1996 , store ring , top £50.80 , average , £47.50. "Absolutely fantastic trade." Note to self , clearly need to bump ewe numbers up to 1000. :rolleyes::facepalm::facepalm:
January 1997 , the wee stores averaged £35.

December 1997 , store lambs average £35. "Sounds bad but a fair trade on the day."

So that was the jolly 90's. And the music was crap as well. Anyone one else want to go back to that? What , no one? Nope , me neither. Left that all behind , and , as everyone else in Society demands an ever better life , then I don't see how we as farmers should be expected to live in the past forever. I've worked too hard to improve my product and cut my costs to turn the clock back 30 years. If they don't want to pay me a living wage to produce lamb , fine , I don't have to do it. Always something else I can go off and do.
Absolutely right, it took a long time for the trade to get going after the demise of the variable premium, we sold lambs for live export, the French slaughter house weighed and paid through the producer group, Listen up, they paid for every .1kg none of this hot to cold rebate, then down to the nearest .5kg, and they averaged £32
 

Top Tip.

Member
Location
highland
hows that? the stores go to grass for a second summer, cheap kgs
But you have to take them through the winter first which is costly,and personally I would prefer to take £1000 for them at 8 months old than £1200 at 20 month's also if you are selling them at 8 months you can carry a lot more cows which is what I enjoy ,I am a breeder not a feeder,there are boys who can feed them better and cheaper than I can.
 
But you have to take them through the winter first which is costly,and personally I would prefer to take £1000 for them at 8 months old than £1200 at 20 month's also if you are selling them at 8 months you can carry a lot more cows which is what I enjoy ,I am a breeder not a feeder,there are boys who can feed them better and cheaper than I can.
Its far easier to achieve an 1200 at 20 months than it is to get 1000 at 8 months, id expect a decent 8 month old to make about 850 not 1000, also im not buying expensive protein they just get my own barley worth 120/t, a lot more work calving more cows than running the calfs on the farm a bit longer surely?
 

Top Tip.

Member
Location
highland
Its far easier to achieve an 1200 at 20 months than it is to get 1000 at 8 months, id expect a decent 8 month old to make about 850 not 1000, also im not buying expensive protein they just get my own barley worth 120/t, a lot more work calving more cows than running the calfs on the farm a bit longer surely?
I m not sure I follow your logic it is a lot less work surely to ship the calves of at 8 months than keep them for another 12. I know that most of my calves are finished and away before 20 months. To put it another way I will average £2·70 odd a kg for the calves you will get £2·20 if you are lucky for the 20 month .:scratchhead:
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
the better ones are best sold off the cow at 9/10 months in our case but we have kept a few that are not look quite so good on for another year and gained 400 or 500 quid I don't think that hurts us
 
I m not sure I follow your logic it is a lot less work surely to ship the calves of at 8 months than keep them for another 12. I know that most of my calves are finished and away before 20 months. To put it another way I will average £2·70 odd a kg for the calves you will get £2·20 if you are lucky for the 20 month .:scratchhead:
I doubt you will average £1000 for 8 month olds, say you average £850 and i average 1200 a year later it hasnt cost me 350 to keep them a year, im using my own straw and they dont need bought in protein at £220/t, the grass they graze over summer is high in clover and gets very little fert im getting near fat price with less cost than most fatners
 
But you have to take them through the winter first which is costly,and personally I would prefer to take £1000 for them at 8 months old than £1200 at 20 month's also if you are selling them at 8 months you can carry a lot more cows which is what I enjoy ,I am a breeder not a feeder,there are boys who can feed them better and cheaper than I can.
IIRC, QMS figures suggest that better margins are made from selling stores at about 12 months rather than as suckled calves.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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