warksfarmer
Member
Yep supposed to reduce Mag which locks up N but over 3 applications and 3 lots of soil tests nothing altered whilst at the same time yields dipped because no other sulphur was applied because it should of come from the gypsum.
Mag and Mang Products
- Thread starter Clive
- Start date
Yep supposed to reduce Mag which locks up N but over 3 applications and 3 lots of soil tests nothing altered whilst at the same time yields dipped because no other sulphur was applied because it should of come from the gypsum.
Sandy
Member
- Location
- Aberdeenshire
Where is that from?
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Yes a pre mixing induction hopper would help but tank agitation needs to be spot on, as the manganese powder particles go into a sort of suspension before they dissolve fully, if they ever do. So you need very good tank agitation to stop the particles from dropping down and forming a sludge on the tank floor. From what I've seen, most sprayer agitators are a poor excuse of a design or not really thought out at all. Magnesium sulphate, on the other hand, always seems to dissolve quite readily.
Is cheap the answer?
Perhaps I have swallowed the marketing but the chealated Mn I use is supposed to actually get more Mn into the plant.
I have no data except that when I use shorteners in a mix with verdi-crop Mn at recommended rates they work too well, half rate is about right.
This would be an interesting TFF trial, Clive, cheap powers verses liquids verses formulated products.
Perhaps I have swallowed the marketing but the chealated Mn I use is supposed to actually get more Mn into the plant.
I have no data except that when I use shorteners in a mix with verdi-crop Mn at recommended rates they work too well, half rate is about right.
This would be an interesting TFF trial, Clive, cheap powers verses liquids verses formulated products.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
I once did a trial by treating half with manganese and leaving half untreated. The untreated half died completely and in the treated half 90% died. Conclusion, I think the residual weed killer was to blame. Manganese helped a tiny bit as would giving a paracetamol to somebody after you'd sawn their leg off. Better not to saw their leg off in the first place.
More trials definitely needed. A very neglected area. Never a serious problem on heavier land.
But in light land we have following factors:
Consolidation
NItrogen supply
Sulphur
Herbicides
Manganese.
Trials would have to consider all factors.
More trials definitely needed. A very neglected area. Never a serious problem on heavier land.
But in light land we have following factors:
Consolidation
NItrogen supply
Sulphur
Herbicides
Manganese.
Trials would have to consider all factors.
ollie989898
Member
ALL herbicides and many PGRs etc will stress crop plants to some extent. The only way to counteract this is to apply manganese which is routinely done in many crops worldwide.
Saying you will cut out using X Y or Z to save £2 on manganese is in my book insane. PDM is far safer than DFF or Flufenacet for starters.
Why is everything some great conspiracy with you lot?
- Location
- Lincolnshire
It's not insane to cut out X, Y or Z if makes the difference between life and death of your crop. We aren't talking just a bit off colour here, we are talking bleached white, and no amount of manganese can save it.
Agronomists are also very good at writing tickets for manganese when there isn't a hope if the sprayer actually making it across the field.
Year after year I've lost crops if barley on light land with professional agronomy advice, so I don't take much notice of experts any more.
Rainmaker
Member
- Location
- Canterbury,NZ
One can't help but wonder if these "professional agronomists" had skin in the game would there recipes be any different.
4course
Member
- Location
- north yorks
have you tried to work out how much mang sul and n is actually being applied to the crop, as it looks to me that its not very much either in quantity or raw material cost. Last year we made use of homemade foliar n p and k after a couple of years experimenting and am fairly sure we are helping to improve the yield and reduce some fungi costs at no extra cost. for mixing purposes we just use a large plasterers whisk or the old redundant sprayer , there is more work to be done ,im sure its just a mindset bit like using generics
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Quite. When things do wrong, it's always "manganese defficiency". But I know that PDM, DFF and flufenacet can really hammer cereals on sand if you aren't very careful. The warning is there on the labels, yet they still get prescribed at high doses. And DFF hangs around so long we have had failure of following year clover sowings.
I have gone back to liberator preem and have cut out the post emergence spray which was ineffective on blackgrass but usually pushed the crop over the edge.
- Location
- the brecks norfolk
What forms of N p k are you using and at what quantities? I was thinking of disolving mop and spraying onto crops mid stem extention but being a salt I'm a bit cautious about scorching he plant.
I'm a firm believer in if we get crop nutrition right we can reduce or even stop applying fungicides, I think as more and more chemicals get revoked or loose effectiveness well see more of this sort of thing becoming mainstream.
What pre em herbicides are you using? There is a huge difference between Mn deficiency and bleaching caused by herbicides. No amount of Mn will cure herbicide damage.
4course
Member
- Location
- north yorks
what I did initially was study the label on some of the foliar feed type products, worked out the amount of ingredient wether it be mn mg N P O or K realised it is very little. Then made up my own using bagged fert at first using it at lower rates and on small fields/areas until now when my confidence has increased and im happy with the results, however I dont mix it with the likes of the higher end chems fungi/or herbi unless ive tried a patch. last yr on here ive posted about applying foliar K and here on my patch it definitely increases bushel weight, im fairly sure that im getting less disease pressure from applying P at insignificant cost , but we do our own spraying so costs are minimal
Steevo
Member
- Location
- Gloucestershire
Or available in enough quantity at the right time.
ollie989898
Member
I think you do those of us who actually care a great disservice.
Every field I walk contains 'my' crop in my book, and I get a great amount of satisfaction from seeing it thrive and knowing what I have done.
If I did not care a jot, I would have virtually no interest, and be far less effective at the job.
If you do not take pride in growing the stuff, you will not enjoy agronomy, it would be immensely unrewarding for me at any rate and no amount of money would keep me in it.
ollie989898
Member
The hazards of applying chemistry to light lands and sands are well known.
Manganese costs virtually nothing, it is nearly a commodity substance. I certainly do not put it on 3 times and can't recall ever doing so, but if people feel it is warranted in their situation so be it.
If you are having crops routinely die from whatever environmental problem it is you are seeing, are you really doing yourself any favours trying to grow it?
I can't help but think if your soil is causing grief like that then there needs to be a rethink about how you treat it, what rotation you run and how you establish crops. Thin sands, sounds like a load of organic matter and FYM is needed.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
Absolutely right and that's why we have returned to mixed farming with grass leys and FYM. This helps with nitrate retention and supply through the winter but organic matter can worsen manganese deficiency due to promotion of soil bacteria activity which take in and lock up manganese. I have seen ploughed up grass leys and heavily manures sand with serious manganese defficiency in the following cereals particularly if there is a lot of oxygen in the seedbed due to poor consolidation. Zero till helps a lot here.
Some say that Mn will counteract herbicide damage, some say it won't. I am not 100% certain what is attributable to herbicide damage and what is attributable to Mn defficiency, but after years of applying copious amounts of Mn maybe 3 foliar sprays of 5 kg per ha Manganese through the winter and a seed dressing and still watching it bleach off I got a bit fed up of this and decided the problem must lie elsewhere. Inappropriate use of residual herbicide seems like the most likely suspect.
This year I applied 0.5 l per ha liberator plus a couple (?) of litres of Defy preem as I do have a difficult blackgrass problem in heavy patches and a serious cranesbill problem through the predominantly sandy land. Even this was plenty. Traditionally we would follow up post em with PDM and more DFF but I've left this out and the crops haven't suffered as much. Haven't noticed any increase in grass weeds either. The Defy has a short half life so hopefully does its job then clears off. The DFF and flufenacet in the Liberator are necessary evils.
Similar problems for my neighbours on this sort of land. Late frosts and dull days really yellow it off, losing tillers and sometimes the whole plant.
NItrate and sulphur, low herbicide usage, consolidation and being careful not to over lime are all equally if not more important than manganese.
In much of farming how much money do we spend creating problems that need more money spent to fix them? Over feeding breeding animals is another situation where this happens. Worst thing you can do. Too much N, then splash out in growth regulators. All to keep the supply industry going, well that's my conspiracy theory.
All good and interesting stuff and varies greatly according to your farm and soil type.
Because we haven't been brainwashed by our employer ?
Mark up on trace elements is very good I believe ?
You want to melt SOP not MOP ideally - I have been doing some research re this so I can avoid expensive pre mixed liquid K this year
You would be amazed how all the little costs add up
If it was your money you might think twice about these inconsequential costs. Multiply them but a few thousand acres and you can soon think of things it would rather be spending thousand of pounds on that "commodity substances"
Every penney counts in this job and this is the area where a lot of supply agronomists really let themselves down imo routinely prescribing trace elements and insecticides that are often not needed but simply because it's the safest option