Growing your own veg

KMA · Apr 23, 2017

Update on the runner beans, 2 germinated almost immediately now re-potted and taking over the kitchen, one a week later and growing nicely on a north facing window sill, just had a little probe in the remaining 3 pots and found one with nothing happening, one rotted to a mush and one disappeared altogether.

Need to get some more started so looking at going down the blotting paper route do I just stick them between a couple of sheets of blotting paper/towel?

Old McDonald · Apr 23, 2017

@KMA as I posted a while ago, you really should take up angling. Spend time doing that instead of rushing to sow seeds. Nothing is gained from early sowing if your plants receive a set-back later.

I am sure you will set up a max/min thermometer and keep records at you new garden site so that you will be able to estimate the likely date of first and last frosts. A soil thermometer too of course so that you do not transplant various crops when the soil is too cold. A couple of soil thermometers are better and you can then record open ground and under cloche soil temps. Record every day at a time convenient to you. The met standard norm around the world is 9 am local time, but 9.30 suits me. I note the temps in a diary and transfer to a spreadsheet. I now have 14 years of records for this site. It is interesting to note how the temperature has increased in those 14 years, and frosts and min temps not as often or severe. The last sentence is not for discussion on this thread!

KMA · Apr 23, 2017

I know, lesson learned for next year. Got a few ideas for a flexible system to increase the growing season and versatility of the raised beds. Can't get anything else out at the moment anyway, nowhere to put them until I get the raised beds in which isn't going to be anytime soon.

Every time I start to do something I find more things I have to sort out first, latest is unblocking a downpipe which runs into the pig ugly monstrosity outside the front of the house and piping the water away somewhere, thinking into a large butt with an overflow into a drain if I can find one without having to cut through too much concrete. The rubble is going to backfill the drainage trenches, the peagravel is blinding the rubble on teh top terrace, the decorative pebbles are going along the roadside where I dug out the old treetrunk and dyke, the sandstone is being set aside and the larger stones will be filling a hole at my son's place.

Looking at the costs of getting a proper weather station type thing linked to the desktop. Onward and upward

KMA · Apr 23, 2017

The very last of the strawb plants is in for this year is now in (had one Honeyoye left over) it'll be interesting to compare the 6 varieties next year, not expecting much this first year. They all seem to be doing OK in spite of a bit of a battering from wind a couple of days after potting them out.

The big courgette plant is currently under a cloche, on the ground in the same cage so very sheltered in full sun, may have to bring it inside overnight next week.

Gooseberry plants will get mulched with old silage film when I have a spare few minutes, hell of a lot of ground elder round about them.

New Puritan · Apr 23, 2017

Just to answer what @Old McDonald said earlier; and reiterate what @Old Boar said, my 6 year old daughter is currently growing beans and sunflowers at her school, and learning about how plants grow. I'm quite impressed actually, they have tied it all into a story they are reading at the moment (Jack & the Beanstalk) so it crosses over various subjects (i.e. reading & comprehension, and science). We live in a small town, so not hugely urban but not super rural either. She certainly seems more interested in that than when I try and tell her about growing cereals...

Despite being a tenant farmer (or possibly because...) I live in a town, and have an allotment. I finally managed to plant my potatoes today (just to the left of some onions that are not quite through yet):

Old Boar · Apr 23, 2017

Looking good - mine is still covered in black silage sheet to cut the weeds down, but frost is hovering, so will wait until next week. Lots of stuff ready to plant in the polytunnel though...

KMA · Apr 24, 2017

Off to get another two soil and a min/max thermometers this morning then create a spreadsheet this evening.

Earliest spuds (express) seem to have been the only things nipped by the frost the Lady Crystle were planted a week later so weren't really through.

I've got a nearly full roll of old 750mm silage wrap as well as an roll of old poly baler twine which get deployed. The wrap is ideal as it hugs the ground.

I have 3 big planters with a young cherry tree which is looking good, horse radish which very pleased and a young Bay Tree which hasn't come through the winter at all well, I've cut back the dead wood in the hope it will send up some new growth but I'm not hopeful. All the herbs are coming well but the Rosemary needs re-potted.

New Puritan · Apr 24, 2017

@KMA - be careful where you put the bay tree, once established they can try and take over. They also create a weed problem with their offspring in due course. I used to have one on the boundary of my garden which caused me no end of trouble with shading / drying of the soil / weeds. Unfortunately it was on the neighbour's side.

Chasingmytail · Apr 24, 2017

Lettuce been 95% with all organic seeds a mix of baby leaf, Mortons secret mix & Maravilla de Verano. Started off in poly when cold (lettuce wont germinate in heat) My peppers and toms all started in the bathroom with clingfilm over did well however, my courgettes have gone over and started to root incl cucumbers and all the squashes I assume I over watered and the stem rotted??

KMA · Apr 24, 2017

Nice looking lettuce, I reckon what you say about their germination and heat maybe that's where I went wrong with the first lot this year.

Thanks for the warning on the bay tree, if it dies I won't replace it, if it survives it'll be kept in the planter and well pruned. Same reason why the horseradish will never get out of the planter. Cherry is still small enough to be fine in its planter but will be planted out in a couple of years.

Soil temp in my spuds was 10 degrees this morning, I now have a whole battery of thermometers to deploy

What might be interesting is to know what soil temps people have got through the country, a bit like the swallows thread which is interesting to see where they've got to day by day.

Chasingmytail · Apr 24, 2017

how deep do you go for soil temp testing? I have a good food thermometer and the Mr has a compost one. To keep results accurate can someone confirm min depth?

Chasingmytail · Apr 24, 2017

KMA said:
Nice looking lettuce, I reckon what you say about their germination and heat maybe that's where I went wrong with the first lot this year.
.

The packets state below 16 degrees??? so something similar. I started mine in the poly in trays and them moved to modules. It was cold then. I tried to grow lettuce in the ground last year and it was too warm. If still in trays pop in a cool place they may still come I had some appear in the beds from last years seeds. Ive had good results from Tamar, Real and Chase.

KMA · Apr 24, 2017

Getting below 16 isn't a problem

. I tried to use my superdooper electric propagator to get an early start, 3 came up in record time, I've given up on the other 3

the story so far
1. biggest courgette plant is out in a planter under a cloche temp sitting at around 15 but will be brought inside tonight as its supposed to get cold and windy into tomorrow little'n is still on a windowsill
2. place still looks like a building site
3. Garlic is going well but blocking up the 'patio' baby cherry tree in the foreground

KMA · Apr 24, 2017

4. Very pleased with the horseradish so far this year last year was it's first so was only able to et enough to make a couple of jars of sauce and need to find a better recipe
5. Slug traps deployed and working well 54 from the 2 traps so far
6. The eyesore I'm removing from the front of the house. The sandstone block with the socket has been confirmed as one of the bases for a pole barn, the pipe leading away from drop pipe doesn't seem to run which could be the reason that corner of the house is very damp. Also a lot of ground elder so I'm being pretty meticulous sorting everything out.

Kidds · Apr 24, 2017

I find it hard to believe that lettuce will suffer high temperature dormancy at anything below 20C and we haven't had that in the polytunnels lately.

I have a Bay tree. it was killed by a real bad winter we had so I chopped it down. It grew back from the stump and then got killed again so I chopped it down.
Once again it grew back and got to roof height so I chopped it back again, not to the ground this time but it is now kept as a bush/shrub rather than a tree just by trimming it as you would a hedge. Very easy to keep under control (providing it is on your side of the fence)

KMA · Apr 24, 2017

Thanks for that info Kidds sounds like the bay tree may recover then, my original plan was to keep it in a big planter and keep it pruned to shrub size. I'm still working on the lines of everything being non-fixed or moveable. I understand that horseradish is an absolute b@stard if it gets loose, hence its strict confinement.

Chasingmytail · Apr 24, 2017

Mr M has cleared a patch to grow just under 50kg of spuds maincrop on top of what I have already bought. Its quite late now and struggling to find seed potatoes and what we want is proper tasty varieties - pref organic. What would you grow and where do I get them from?

KMA · Apr 24, 2017

Saw some King Edwards on my wanderings today, think it might have been in Homebase so nothing special but might be worth a look if you're stuck. I'm lucky, I have 3 very good small local garden centres, as well as a specialist certified seed tattie producer about 20 miles away, just hope none get bought out by some national chain like Dobbies. There's a few nurseries in the area and a plant sale coming up in the village hall next weekend.

Old McDonald · Apr 24, 2017

Chasingmytail said:
(lettuce wont germinate in heat)

Chasingmytail said:
how deep do you go for soil temp testing?

Chasingmytail said:
The packets state below 16 degrees

Kidds said:
I find it hard to believe that lettuce will suffer high temperature dormancy at anything below 20C and we haven't had that in the polytunnels lately.

Chasingmytail said:
Its quite late now and struggling to find seed potatoes

Just a few points relating to the above quotes, and not necesasrily direct responses.

Lettuce are one of those crops that germinate best at low temperatures and are inhibited as the tempeture rises. I am not qualified to offer defitive advice on the upper limit of anything, but tend to look at the the rising temperatures for optimum germination and try to sow at that temp or just a slightly higher temp. I am particularly wary of the optimium very low temps of (in rising order) spinach, radish, lettuce, onion (remember my link to Robinsons a few posts ago?), pea, cabbage and carrot.

I think posters (oops originally posted posers there) should remember that "hiring days" for ag workers were around 10-12 May and nobody could sow their gardens before they moved into their new house.

There is no rush. Take your time. You will not be the first new crop in the area, but you might well be the best.

KMA · Apr 25, 2017

Just had a quick google and come up with various answers as to what depth to measure soil temperature at,

Met says globally measurements are taken at 10, 30 and 100cm http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/guide/weather/observations-guide/how-we-measure-temperature

AHDB/EBLEX took their measurements at 10cm (4") http://beefandlamb.ahdb.org.uk/measure-soil-temperature-2/

A gardening site reckons you should measure either at planting depth or at for a mixed area 5-6" (12-16cm), Couldn't find anything on the RHS site :scratchhead:

Think I'll settle on 10cm at 9am'

Growing your own veg

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