Explain Holistic Plz

johnspeehs · Jun 23, 2017

Had been speaking to a neighbour who recommended a product to use in my broiler houses to keep litter dry and reduce ammonia levels to help with hock burn levels. The salesman came to see me and I asked him how it worked and eventually after waffling for about half an hr he said its a holistic product. Anyway, against my better judgement I bought a bucket of white powder and used it in one house as per instructions but I saw no difference.
So, how is this supposed to work? What do you actually get from A holistic product?.

wr. · Jun 23, 2017

This'll be interesting

johnspeehs · Jun 23, 2017

wr. said:
This'll be interesting

Well I'm hoping so cos at the minute I think I was sold very expensive snake oil.

phillipe · Jun 23, 2017

you put a bucket of something inwith your stock and you have no idea what it was ,i some buckets of invisible cure all ,sixty quid a bucket ,how many do you want

phillipe · Jun 23, 2017

i am sure somebody will put me right ,but you have been done like a kipper

mikep · Jun 23, 2017

You may have irreparably harmed your stock. Please send me £35 for the tub of antidote immediately

Kiwi Pete · Jun 23, 2017

Be interested to know what he sold you..
diatomaceous earth maybe?

I think the general idea behind "holistic" systems is to prevent issues from occurring, as opposed to continually being in a circle of fixing/minimising problems...
would need to be a good bucket to do that really. Although if it is diatomaceous earth, you bought some good handy stuff

that will dry out poo, kill insects and parasites without selection, and a lot more..
as in, that's my "drench", flystrike control all in one. Good for keeping crawlies out of grain silos too.

johnspeehs · Jun 23, 2017

Its plocher product, made in Germany, Lots of farmers locally use it in lambing pens etc to keep them dry. If ive had my eye wiped I'm only one of many as they are a huge company.

KMA · Jun 24, 2017

diatomaceous earth is great for adding to dust baths and litter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

Chasingmytail · Jun 24, 2017

surely you had a conversation and there is a label on the tub????? Holistic is natural like Diatomaceous earth which is an amazing product that works well with poultry. I use it to line the hen house and in the laying box to stop red mite. I also use it as a wormer as it has properties which work for us even though it hasnt been proved. Its a cheap dust grey in colour and has a drying effect. You can buy bags of it on ebay. But if you dont know what your buying and using then thats worrying as what are you writing in your book as purchase and use?

Chasingmytail · Jun 24, 2017

Holistic is a bit like eating mint for bad stomach. Holistic management is moving animals in rotation to avoid burdons and improve pasture while working with symbiosis - dung beetles, insects and mycolife. Some thoughts have to go through it a bit like a SWAT analysis why am I doing this, what do I need to do, What effects blar blar.

Lots of things in life as holistic. Massage, positive thinking etc. With animals its using remedies like sheep self medicate on ivy. Do my sheep need worming - will I worm them if they dont need it. If I have a problem then why...Use natural remedies to overcome issues. Its up to you whether you beleive it or call it snake oil but many of the ideas were used before pharma and we evolved pretty well. Lots of countries around the world use holistic as they have no other option and plenty of countries around the world have healthy populations, little obesity and live to ripe old age.

http://jlavertyandson.com/product/plocher-poultry-manure-dolomite-10kg/ It states Dolomite as the main carrier. You can look this up.

TelesnaAg · Jun 24, 2017

Kiwi Pete uses this but i don't know how to tag someone !!! In this day and age...i am a failure....

Ant...

Bob c · Jun 24, 2017

@Kiwi Pete

Osca · Jun 24, 2017

Chasingmytail said:
Holistic is a bit like eating mint for bad stomach. Holistic management is moving animals in rotation to avoid burdons and improve pasture while working with symbiosis - dung beetles, insects and mycolife. Some thoughts have to go through it a bit like a SWAT analysis why am I doing this, what do I need to do, What effects blar blar.

Lots of things in life as holistic. Massage, positive thinking etc. With animals its using remedies like sheep self medicate on ivy. Do my sheep need worming - will I worm them if they dont need it. If I have a problem then why...Use natural remedies to overcome issues. Its up to you whether you beleive it or call it snake oil but many of the ideas were used before pharma and we evolved pretty well. Lots of countries around the world use holistic as they have no other option and plenty of countries around the world have healthy populations, little obesity and live to ripe old age.

http://jlavertyandson.com/product/plocher-poultry-manure-dolomite-10kg/ It states Dolomite as the main carrier. You can look this up.

With due respect, I feel that a lot of this is just what "holistic" doesn't mean.

"Holistic" gets used as a by-word for "natural" and by implication, "good". It should actually be possible to use modern technologies holistically - and it is certainly possible to use "natural" technologies in a way which is damaging and unbalanced.

I understand "holistic" as meaning that there are side effects and knock-on effects in whatever you do and that you must be aware of these - that a quick fix may just cure a symptom and cause further problems - that balancing the system is what is required. So recognising the need for wildlife and preventing, say, random killing of badgers is good and is a holistic viewpoint - but preserving badgers in isolation without regard to hedgehogs, ground-nesting birds and the spread of disease is not a holistic viewpoint as the system is now unbalanced.

Medically, my mum, many years ago, went to a "Holistic" GP for a number of small but worrying symptoms. The GP should have taken all these symptoms together and seen where they were leading. That would have been a Holistic approach. Instead she treated them separately (though with reference to my mother's mental health, eating and sleeping habits and general feeling of well-being) and treated them - I susect - homeopathically. Unfortunately there is no homeopathic cure for ovarian cancer - possibly no homepathic cure for anything - and so much time was lost before a proper diagnosis was made, that my mother had no chance.

So no, "holistic" does NOT mean "natural" and neither word necessarily means "good".

Bury the Trash · Jun 24, 2017

TelesnaAg said:
Kiwi Pete uses this but i don't know how to tag someone !!! In this day and age...i am a failure....

Ant...

its easy ...type put one of these... @ then without leaving a gap, type a copy of the users name tag exactly as it is shown ie. with small case large case and maybe a gap between letters etc.

@TelesnaAg

if its done corectly it will turn blue but not this one as i didnt leave a gap between Kiwi and Pete ...... .@KiwiPete

TelesnaAg · Jun 24, 2017

It's been a big nite for me..I can now tag...plus I learnt voice tontext...which is bloody amazing for my Evernote app

Ant...

Kiwi Pete · Jun 24, 2017

Cheers for the tag @TelesnaAg, I must say DE is one of the few things that is true to label (maybe as it makes no promises)

although it definitely attracts the sceptics, 'all this witchcraft stuff'

I think that way too much emphasis is put on what category things fall under; is what I do organic, or holistic, or biological or just natural farming?

Even I don't know the answer....

I just say "Natural"- as most of the tools I use are found abundantly somewhere else in the world, now made available here.

I have a tip trailer that doesn't get much use, with DE underneath. Any time the stock have access they head under it for a roll and then anything living on them dies.. simple as that. Don't need pour-on or dip.

I don't know if it would reduce ammonia level in dung just like that, but it would help suck excess moisture out of it, while also killing any insect that contacts it.. and safe enough to eat (I can vouch for that) or, put directly into feed as a worming agent.

The ground has sunk where my DE patch is, it is that effective at killing worms.

The main problem with a fair few of these solutions is, you have someone ask "what's the active ingredient?" and you then have an hour long discussion about that!!

mikep · Jun 25, 2017

Osca said:
With due respect, I feel that a lot of this is just what "holistic" doesn't mean.

"Holistic" gets used as a by-word for "natural" and by implication, "good". It should actually be possible to use modern technologies holistically - and it is certainly possible to use "natural" technologies in a way which is damaging and unbalanced.

I understand "holistic" as meaning that there are side effects and knock-on effects in whatever you do and that you must be aware of these - that a quick fix may just cure a symptom and cause further problems - that balancing the system is what is required. So recognising the need for wildlife and preventing, say, random killing of badgers is good and is a holistic viewpoint - but preserving badgers in isolation without regard to hedgehogs, ground-nesting birds and the spread of disease is not a holistic viewpoint as the system is now unbalanced.

Medically, my mum, many years ago, went to a "Holistic" GP for a number of small but worrying symptoms. The GP should have taken all these symptoms together and seen where they were leading. That would have been a Holistic approach. Instead she treated them separately (though with reference to my mother's mental health, eating and sleeping habits and general feeling of well-being) and treated them - I susect - homeopathically. Unfortunately there is no homeopathic cure for ovarian cancer - possibly no homepathic cure for anything - and so much time was lost before a proper diagnosis was made, that my mother had no chance.

So no, "holistic" does NOT mean "natural" and neither word necessarily means "good".

Absolutely right. For me it means using whatever method I think that has least collateral damage. 2litres of roundup and 2litres of diesel notill or 15 litres diesel and lots of steel organic?
Organic and conventional are both bad for various reasons, typhoid and ebola death are natural.
Never apologise for your existence just leave the smallest footprint you can.

TelesnaAg · Jun 25, 2017

I think carbon footprint is the biggest over looked area...and probably time consuming to quantify, i think a university done one on the prius toyota hybrid and found it was greater...

The global trade march our pollies are on is helping destroy the environment they are trying to tax us on...

I will never be organic, holistic, no till chemical etc...i will do what i can see is best...and concentrate on growing as much produce as i can from internal sources....harvesting my own seed where possible (and of course selling some excess for cashola!) I think i am in area where there's not much we cant grow seed wise to sustain ourselves...The only thing i have to drive to far for is chicken crap...i wish someone was closer...luckily it's potent but when caged birds end it will be thing of the past...Then i need the chooks in the paddock...which if a young person wants to do i will let them on the land.

Trends are for the weak minded...

Ant....

Farmer Roy · Jun 28, 2017

TelesnaAg said:
I think carbon footprint is the biggest over looked area...and probably time consuming to quantify, i think a university done one on the prius toyota hybrid and found it was greater...

The global trade march our pollies are on is helping destroy the environment they are trying to tax us on...

I will never be organic, holistic, no till chemical etc...i will do what i can see is best...and concentrate on growing as much produce as i can from internal sources....harvesting my own seed where possible (and of course selling some excess for cashola!) I think i am in area where there's not much we cant grow seed wise to sustain ourselves...The only thing i have to drive to far for is chicken crap...i wish someone was closer...luckily it's potent but when caged birds end it will be thing of the past...Then i need the chooks in the paddock...which if a young person wants to do i will let them on the land.

Trends are for the weak minded...

Ant....

rather than being "blinkered" about any one production system, be it organic or zero till or whatever, we need to look at them as "tools" that are available to achieve our aims. We need to be clear about our goals, needs, motivations etc etc, then choose from the available tools to achieve them. Hopefully, in the most viable, sustainable, profitable way we can, while doing the least amount of "harm" ( because all human activity has some negative impact on the planet, the environment, or others ) that we can . . .

Explain Holistic Plz

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