When i took my maths mock o level in 76 I got 29% that was the real o level exam from 1967, we were all shocked how hard it was, I was used to getting 75% plus in tests. The exam we took later was much easier and I got a b grade o level, so I think dumbing down has been going on a long time
Can you read this for me please?
- Thread starter Walterp
- Start date
Exfarmer
Member
- Location
- Bury St Edmunds
I am sorry Walter but your pay scales are completely wrong for England anyway. A quick google reveals starting at £23,900 going up to £50K.
But my argument was not about this , I could not do the job in the current climate of the little darlings being boss of the classroom and as long as it prevails, we are not going to see any great advances in educational achievement
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
@Billhook I could not pass that paper now. I think I could when I was 16 (O level year) but not 13. I would certainly not have passed with a distinction. Every now and again I read Charles Kingsley's books. Those he wrote for his children are grammatically way beyond what anyone would expect a child of similar age today understanding, yet he wrote individual books for his own children so he would knwo their capabilities.
I have found that here the youngsters have a better command of English grammar than every ex-pat I have met.
I suspect the reason is that (as we were taught French and Latin grammar) they are taught English grammar, and kids in Britih schools are not taught English grammar.
On reflection, I believe I was taught French grammar to a higher standard than I was taught English grammar.
I have found that here the youngsters have a better command of English grammar than every ex-pat I have met.
I suspect the reason is that (as we were taught French and Latin grammar) they are taught English grammar, and kids in Britih schools are not taught English grammar.
On reflection, I believe I was taught French grammar to a higher standard than I was taught English grammar.
Walterp
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
This is the latest available pay scale, with the main scale being the first table:
Billhook
Member
Ah yes! It is all coming back now. Future perfect, pluperfect, past perfect, future indicative, nominative, accusative, dative and ablative and ablative absolute. Sounds like a foreign language today!
- Location
- Northumberland
I thought those terms were used for Latin?
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
They are, but also for almost all other languages. I think (digging into the memory banks) there are some simple ones that have only one past tense, and possibly one future, but I am not saying that that is so.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
English lessons that were spent larking about in the drama studio did nothing to help my grammar.
On arriving at university, I was told I would never be able to write a report by a particularly sarcastic old lecturer.
Anyway, none of that really mattered when I think of my lifetime achievement which was to successfully weld the rails of a 3000 bird shed back together whilst lying face down in chicken sh!t so that it could be winched off a heap manure, after the original gang had broken it into two pieces. To see that hut slide steadily off the heap without breaking up meant more to me than graduating.
Lots of people can talk a job, theorise, and wax lyrical, but not so many can do it.
On arriving at university, I was told I would never be able to write a report by a particularly sarcastic old lecturer.
Anyway, none of that really mattered when I think of my lifetime achievement which was to successfully weld the rails of a 3000 bird shed back together whilst lying face down in chicken sh!t so that it could be winched off a heap manure, after the original gang had broken it into two pieces. To see that hut slide steadily off the heap without breaking up meant more to me than graduating.
Lots of people can talk a job, theorise, and wax lyrical, but not so many can do it.
- Location
- Lincolnshire
And genative.
If it wasn't for Latin, I wouldn't know anything about English grammar.
- Location
- Northumberland
That would confer your point in an earlier post.I was only taught those terms for Latin,but not for English.I think the Australian author Clive James said much the same.They were taught that in their schools,but English kids were not.
Billhook
Member
Write out one hundred times "I must learn to spell genitive correctly" and leave it on my desk by tomorrow evening!
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
I was taught some English grammar, but very little about the different tenses (King Edward VI Grammar School, Morpeth - now a comprehensive). On the other hand, Latin and French concentrated on the tenses. It did not do much for our ability to converse, but we knew when somebody spoke the wrong tense.
The one thing that I remember most about the senior English master was that he was also the Careers' Master. My final year interview with him was the only time father ever went to the school, parents being invited. The master asked what I wanted to do when I left school and I said I was going to be a farmer. His reply was "You can't, your father is not a farmer so you can't".
I was thinking that for the senior English master to use a word that does not exist was rather foolish. Father's response was "He says he is going to be a farmer, and he will". We then left.
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
On reflection, since both Latin and French were compulsory subjects, I suppose it was not necessary to have much formal teaching of tenses in English because everyone knew (to a greater or lesser extent!!) about the tenses from the other two language lessons. Whether we always used that knowlede is another matter.
Walterp
Member
- Location
- Pembrokeshire
Having re-read this thread I thought I'd write my conclusions, for my own benefit as much as anyone else's.
Why? Because, in my respectful opinion, education should be the UK's top priority. It always was, of course - teach a man to fish, and all that.
The fact that it is not, makes its own point - the English educational system (and, perforce, that of the other three countries in the Union) is self-evidently dysfunctional.
It is unconvincing to blame this on teachers, pupils, or the curriculum. Instead, it simply reflects the current values and attitudes of the country. Attitudes are telling - suggestions that the under-funding of State schools is due to teachers 'hoovering up' the annual budget, nostalgia for Latin lessons, or that the country can return to the Grammar School tradition, all are wide of the mark.
The reality is that the country's poor educational standard is acceptable to those in charge, or who can influence policy, because they can insulate themselves from it by money to pay for a better alternative.
I suppose that our educational system will carry on under-performing until this is addressed.
Why? Because, in my respectful opinion, education should be the UK's top priority. It always was, of course - teach a man to fish, and all that.
The fact that it is not, makes its own point - the English educational system (and, perforce, that of the other three countries in the Union) is self-evidently dysfunctional.
It is unconvincing to blame this on teachers, pupils, or the curriculum. Instead, it simply reflects the current values and attitudes of the country. Attitudes are telling - suggestions that the under-funding of State schools is due to teachers 'hoovering up' the annual budget, nostalgia for Latin lessons, or that the country can return to the Grammar School tradition, all are wide of the mark.
The reality is that the country's poor educational standard is acceptable to those in charge, or who can influence policy, because they can insulate themselves from it by money to pay for a better alternative.
I suppose that our educational system will carry on under-performing until this is addressed.
How much money has to be thrown into education to maintain discipline and a learning environment in the classroom? It appears to be a problem with our society that will not be solved with any amount of money.
'We have invested more money than previous governments' is what we're always hearing from politicians but real ideas on how to fix a problem with our society seem to be in short supply.
'We have invested more money than previous governments' is what we're always hearing from politicians but real ideas on how to fix a problem with our society seem to be in short supply.