A Bloody Good War Would Sort Them Out

Walterp

Member
Location
Pembrokeshire
A view oft-expressed by British farmers of a certain age - notably those too young to have actually fought in the last one, which cast enduring attitudes across the most war-torn continent on the planet.

It's easy to forget that old guys spouting such rubbish are invariably too young to have actually flown sorties in 1940 (a handful of embittered Polish RAF pilots claiming 20% of all 'kills' during those epoch-altering aerial dogfights) or slogged across France to get themselves killed under Montgomery.

In my youth, the farmers who fought in the war never suggested such a stupid idea, but kept quiet about it - one old guy I knew never revealed that he had won a medal in Normandy, it coming out 50 years later, in his obituary. This might have had something to do with what he had had to do to earn it - he shinned up a tree and, while under continuous fire, shot dead a whole German machine-gun crew that was pinning down his patrol.

Instead, I hear farmers who refused to join the Home Guard ('I haven't got time for that nonsense') and used conscription exemptions to pressure their equally-unheroic sons into doing as they were told or else 'I'll report you as sacked to the War Department - that'll sort you out.'

After that war was over, National Service carried on for another 20 years - plenty of time for the spouters to have joined up and did their bit in better-timed wars in Korea, Malaya, Cyprus, Aden, Palestine, etc, as they are keen to recommend for youngsters these days. But there was another draft exemption for farming - and a surprising number of farmers' sons never volunteered.

So next time you hear some old guy claiming that a stint in the Army - or an actual war - would do everyone a power of good, just ask them what they did in the last one.
 

Pilgrimmick

Member
Location
Argyll
Having served in the Army, (got the 'T' shirt to prove it) I think national service would be a disaster for the professional army, as it is. Unless we are planning on having another global conflict, then an Army of 100-120K is enough. Admittedly it is below strength now.
To deplete an already understrength military to train millions of unwilling boys and girls to do a difficult job for poor money would be the final nail in the coffin for the skills that we can rely on at the minute.
Just imagine what the fall out will be if any of these unwilling, uninterested folk start dying in Afghanistan, Iraq, or wherever the next war will be.
No, if national service is required to bring the youth of today in to line, then have them, collecting bins, sweeping streets, or even better learning a useful trade such as building or engineering rather than food service or the ubiquitous barista!
Or, a radical thought, helping feed the country by harvesting labour intensive crops!


Just pop back into my trench, put on the helmet and wait for the flak!
 

beefandsleep

Member
Location
Staffordshire
It's not something i hear much to be honest. If there was conscription of any kind I would try every trick in the book to keep my son out of the army. There's no way I want him sent out to fight and kill or be killed for some politicians ego. If the younger generation needs discipline then school is the place to instil it. Prosecute parents who undermine school discipline and spend the billions wasted on foreign aid on our education system.
 

J 1177

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Durham, UK
Not all farmers @Walterp. My grandfather was on the farm and did his duty as a policeman as he wanted to help the war effort. He was that well thought of after the war he was offered a job for life in the local constabulary. Instead his heart lay on the farm and that is where he stayed. Iv still got his letters of commendation and his medals. Something im extremely proud of.
He was far from unheroic!!!
 
I wanted to join the RAF on fast track officers but at the time, as my Father wasn't born in the UK (despite being a citizen from age 5) I wasn't permitted.

My daughter on the other hand is in the ATC. If everything goes according to plan she will get on the officer's fast track and be put through University just sacrificing holidays to the RAF and then serving a minimum term afterwards (unless she wants to stay in of course).
Theoretically she could be free at 23 with an engineering degree, a pilot's license and no debt.
 

Joe

Member
Location
Carlow Ireland
Well, if it isn't wars, it will be plagues.

Did I hear right (R4)? The population of India is due to double by 2050? I am with David Attenborough. The problem is not climate change or global warming or any of that ilk, but the population explosion. Nature has ways of dealing with such problems.

Is that true, bloody hell where will they all fit.. I lived in India and the population density in rural areas is crazy let alone in the cities. I believe India has a population density over 1,000 per sq KM, which is nuts considering China I believe is less than 400.....
 
I will throw in my two penneth in, which may or may not be popular.

  • Litter picking and drain unblocking and road sweeping should be carried out by people serving custodial sentences, enabling them to pay back society rather than being a drain.
  • State benefits should be given in return for volunteering within the local community
  • The UK's education system is broken and under-funded
  • The NHS is broken and over-funded
  • The youth of today needs an education which is appropriate to society's labour requirements.
  • Our immigration policy should match our labour needs
  • Our armed forces should have the manpower and financial resources to secure our own sea and land borders and to defend our overseas territories.
[rant over]
 
Conscription does not work, and national service would merely be an expensive excersize in churning out low quality product.

200 well trained and well motivated soldiers is worth a thousand muppets, as has been demonstrated in countless conflicts throughout history.

And wars today, are nearly so expensive it is a wonder anyone can afford them.
 

Y Fan Wen

Member
Location
N W Snowdonia
A view oft-expressed by British farmers of a certain age - notably those too young to have actually fought in the last one, which cast enduring attitudes across the most war-torn continent on the planet.

It's easy to forget that old guys spouting such rubbish are invariably too young to have actually flown sorties in 1940 (a handful of embittered Polish RAF pilots claiming 20% of all 'kills' during those epoch-altering aerial dogfights) or slogged across France to get themselves killed under Montgomery.

In my youth, the farmers who fought in the war never suggested such a stupid idea, but kept quiet about it - one old guy I knew never revealed that he had won a medal in Normandy, it coming out 50 years later, in his obituary. This might have had something to do with what he had had to do to earn it - he shinned up a tree and, while under continuous fire, shot dead a whole German machine-gun crew that was pinning down his patrol.

Instead, I hear farmers who refused to join the Home Guard ('I haven't got time for that nonsense') and used conscription exemptions to pressure their equally-unheroic sons into doing as they were told or else 'I'll report you as sacked to the War Department - that'll sort you out.'

After that war was over, National Service carried on for another 20 years - plenty of time for the spouters to have joined up and did their bit in better-timed wars in Korea, Malaya, Cyprus, Aden, Palestine, etc, as they are keen to recommend for youngsters these days. But there was another draft exemption for farming - and a surprising number of farmers' sons never volunteered.

So next time you hear some old guy claiming that a stint in the Army - or an actual war - would do everyone a power of good, just ask them what they did in the last one.
I believe you have to be in your 90s now to have served in ww2
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.3%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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