Preparing spring seed bed in the autumn.

blueknightrick · Oct 17, 2017

Hi All,

I have Weaving Sabre tine drill and I am looking to grow spring oats after wheat next spring. I have ploughed and pressed because there are some patches of black grass. Ideally I want to spray off the BG/weeds in the spring and then go straight in with my drill, with as little soil disturbance as possible.

My question is: How should I leave the soil over winter? Leave it as it is? Should I lightly harrow and level it out? Prepare a normal seedbed and leave?

What do people think?

Thanks in advance.

SilliamWhale · Oct 17, 2017

On a dd forum the awnser is dont plough it!!

hindmaist · Oct 17, 2017

Go and unplough it immediately.

blueknightrick · Oct 17, 2017

Good point!! My apologies.

I didn’t really want to plough it but my agronomist persuaded me it was the best way to get rid of the black grass. Once buried I do not intend to bring it up again!

I also have a home made drill so need to build up confidence in it. I am going to do some direct drilling with it next autumn to see how I get on.

whiddy · Oct 17, 2017

If its level leave as is, if not maybe a light springtine, slightly ridged up ground is a good way to go through the winter.

Louis Mc · Oct 19, 2017

Moderation of this forum is really slipping.... might try and start an "ideal depth for rotovating" next

britt · Oct 21, 2017

You should have put the agronomist in the bottom of the furrow if he thinks that's the best way reduce black grass over winter.
If you had left it on top it would have grown, rotted or been eaten.
Aren't there GAEC rules about over wintered bare soil.

Louis Mc · Oct 21, 2017

Over Winter ploughing isn't allowed here? What's rules in uk?

franklin · Oct 21, 2017

Plough it, level it, leave it be. Roundup in spring then go drill.

britt said:
Aren't there GAEC rules about over wintered bare soil.

GAEC4 allows the following exception:

"where the action of frost over winter is used to break down soil naturally to create a seedbed for spring cropping"

Farma Parma · Oct 22, 2017

Ive just finished doing some winter ploughing here.
Both fields are heavy enough.
Peas into one & S Oats into the other & its no good ploughing them in mid march if your lucky to actually be able to pull a plough then is another matter.
Surely we will get some frost/snow this year?
i dont mind leaving both till mid April if i have too.
Ive never worked land intentionally & then left it until the spring tho.
Esp not heavy ground... it will be a weed mess & still wet in april if i did.

tr250 · Oct 22, 2017

I'm A big dd fan but we all need the confidence to get going I think cultivating in autumn ready to direct drill in spring is a good way to start although not really direct. And on black grass land autumn cultivation to make it grow then low disturbance in spring got to be a good thing. Answer to op question make it fine enough so that it's level enough without making it too tight. in future years you could plant a cover crop and roll it then glyphosate early enough so that it's well dead and so surface can dry to drill

Mr Charisma · Nov 4, 2017

Although I don't really belong on this part of the forum as one of your members politely pointed out a year or so ago I still watch over various threads ,,,,,,, but In this case were the deed has been done (plough and press ) I would say it depends how level every thing is , if going Ito be direct drilled for the conceivable future then the land needs to be level but not to fine , perhaps a unipress to level it but to leave a weather proof finish , he should then be able to drill straight in in the spring

farmerm · Nov 4, 2017

Louis Mc said:
Over Winter ploughing isn't allowed here? What's rules in uk?

Christ! On our ground spring ploughed crop just dont work. Spring ploughed 1 of 3 bean fields last crop, it yield half what the other 2 did. Got rained off winter ploughing on another field a few years ago, again the beans on the spring ploughed land didn't perform. If I couldn't winter plough I wouldn't have spring crops

britt · Nov 4, 2017

Mr Charisma said:
Although I don't really belong on this part of the forum as one of your members politely pointed out a year or so ago I still watch over various threads ,,,,,,, but In this case were the deed has been done (plough and press ) I would say it depends how level every thing is , if going Ito be direct drilled for the conceivable future then the land needs to be level but not to fine , perhaps a unipress to level it but to leave a weather proof finish , he should then be able to drill straight in in the spring

Ploughing then cultivating is not a good way to level ground to go into notill.
Driving over soft plough ground causes ruts which are filled by the cultivator. While this may look level, the bulk density of the soil through to plough depth will be higher than the soil around it and over time as the soil corrects itself you will end up with ridges where those wheeling were.
This what we have found and a few years into notill you have to shallow cultivate to level the surface. Which is not only annoying, but allows all of the local naysayers to think that you have given up on notill and they were right all along, "notill can't and won't work".

James W · Nov 4, 2017

britt said:
You should have put the agronomist in the bottom of the furrow if he thinks that's the best way reduce black grass over winter.
If you had left it on top it would have grown, rotted or been eaten.
Aren't there GAEC rules about over wintered bare soil.

agree with yellow belly here, much of the blackgrass seed fell down the cracks in the soil in July, ploughing is lethal. We had a Sabre and i am guessing you havnt had yours that long..? The sabre may block on a sticky stubble and it may not open the ground up for the seedling enough , but also, the sabre wont shut the slot in heavy clay soils so your crop will be lost. I should say that the sabre is one of the best drills on the market and i would definitely have one again. Infact behind a sub-disc, or into a conventional seed bed , if you can roll , the sabre is an excellent drill.
Given its now turned wet and its november, i would wait for a few frosts and disc the ground up then just leave it. Sabre should do a good job into that.

franklin · Nov 4, 2017

Well, my land is ploughed for spring oats now. Will run a light drag through it on a frost. That will be the last deep cultivation for a fair few years as it goes to OSR, then WW, then grass for the next 5 years. Other land for spring linseed was subsoiled and left to green up. Last time I left stubbles with chopped straw it was mid May before they were dry enough to go straight into - subsoiled land was 6 weeks earlier and outperformed.

Mr Charisma · Nov 4, 2017

britt said:
Ploughing then cultivating is not a good way to level ground to go into notill.
Driving over soft plough ground causes ruts which are filled by the cultivator. While this may look level, the bulk density of the soil through to plough depth will be higher than the soil around it and over time as the soil corrects itself you will end up with ridges where those wheeling were.
This what we have found and a few years into notill you have to shallow cultivate to level the surface. Which is not only annoying, but allows all of the local naysayers to think that you have given up on notill and they were right all along, "notill can't and won't work".

But,,,,,,, the OP has already ploughed the ground , surely it must be wise to get as level a seedbed albeit rough whilst the ground is relatively dry , ready to accept his minimal disturbance drill in the spring

yellow belly · Nov 11, 2017

when I have ploughed for spring crops the best results have been when I produced a good wheat seed bed in September and left it ploughed 1st September and dry
the next best was failed rape due to too dry straw burnt light spring tine drilled rape no rain for weeks rabbits then drilled linseed in spring

the best beans were drilled mid april notill

if I have to go back to ploughing then I will have the plough following the combine a lot of power on land with 10 inch furrows at 6 to 7 inches deep with a full set of disc coulters and skimmers set to burry everything

I would also look at varing depth the following year to bring up fresh soil

hell may have to freeze over first

scottishsnake · Oct 22, 2018

britt said:
Ploughing then cultivating is not a good way to level ground to go into notill.
Driving over soft plough ground causes ruts which are filled by the cultivator. While this may look level, the bulk density of the soil through to plough depth will be higher than the soil around it and over time as the soil corrects itself you will end up with ridges where those wheeling were.
This what we have found and a few years into notill you have to shallow cultivate to level the surface. Which is not only annoying, but allows all of the local naysayers to think that you have given up on notill and they were right all along, "notill can't and won't work".

Yup, my neighbours are all laughing at me, a new barbed top wire with added electric will stop their noses knocking the staples oot

Fuzzy · Oct 22, 2018

blueknightrick said:
Hi All,

I have Weaving Sabre tine drill and I am looking to grow spring oats after wheat next spring. I have ploughed and pressed because there are some patches of black grass. Ideally I want to spray off the BG/weeds in the spring and then go straight in with my drill, with as little soil disturbance as possible.

My question is: How should I leave the soil over winter? Leave it as it is? Should I lightly harrow and level it out? Prepare a normal seedbed and leave?

What do people think?

Thanks in advance.

Leave it alone, spray off before drilling. The last thing you want to do is start opening up the ground again and stirring up the blackgrass. You might think it is all buried, but it is not !!!

Preparing spring seed bed in the autumn.

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