MIG welding without cracking

DrWazzock · Oct 21, 2017

Sometimes I have know the weld to crack as I am applying it, more often with heavy sections that cannot move to accommodate the contraction of the cooling.

Now I need to V out the end of a ram cylinder that has cracked and reweld it. There will be no possible movement as I refill the V and I am worried about cracking the new weld.

What can I do to avoid cracking? Not overdo gas flow? Plenty of power and heat? Anything else? Multiple passes, or one big hot run?

It's the Manitou crowd ram cylinder end cover.

Fraserb · Oct 21, 2017

Can't help with the welding but we had a few manitou rams split there and various people tried welding them and none lasted.

davidroberts30 · Oct 21, 2017

Multiple cooler welds
Weld it up and pack it in dry sand so it takes ages to cool

Pennine Ploughing · Oct 21, 2017

They may well be like JCB rams, they are friction welded,

would be best to but a new stem for the ram,

i dont have any bother with cracking welds, are you using too much heat

Mur Huwcun · Oct 21, 2017

Use a stick welder, much better to weld oil contaiminated steel. The oil just ruins a mig weld, even better if you can pre heat the joint first to sweat it out.

davidroberts30 · Oct 21, 2017

And get a few 7018 rods

TheTallGuy · Oct 21, 2017

Multiple cooler passes & use some propane or acetylene to pre heat & then slow the cooling. Also allowing a bit of time between each string will allow a bit of contraction before starting the next pass.

DrWazzock · Oct 21, 2017

Thanks. I had wondered about using the stick welder.

The original weld looks like a manual stick weld, welding the end on the cylinder. It's cracked and leaking along about an inch length of weld. Dripping away. 27 years old, 8000 hours so not bad. It's a big ram so no doubt expensive to replace. Wear in bushes not too bad.

@ACEngineering , any experience of welding up cracks in manitou ram cylinder end piece?

tinman · Oct 21, 2017

i havnt seen a manitou ram so forgive my ignorance here but its quite possible that the composition of the (im guessing here) cast ram end may not be suitable to some forms of welding.
id make sure your welding the cylinder dry, as in no oil in it at all and disassembled.
as said already id be warming it up good so it takes the contamination of the oil out of it and makes things flow that bit better, if its a form of cast it most likely needs heating up anyways.

a spark test on the grinder would give you a rough idea as to whether its cast steel or cast iron, the end that is, the cylinder will be steel.
that would dictate what rod to use.
a 29/9 may weld it as its suited to dissimilar steels but it wont weld cast iron.

ACEngineering · Oct 21, 2017

DrWazzock said:
Thanks. I had wondered about using the stick welder.

The original weld looks like a manual stick weld, welding the end on the cylinder. It's cracked and leaking along about an inch length of weld. Dripping away. 27 years old, 8000 hours so not bad. It's a big ram so no doubt expensive to replace. Wear in bushes not too bad.

@ACEngineering , any experience of welding up cracks in manitou ram cylinder end piece?

No No and No!

Picture should say it all

DrWazzock · Oct 21, 2017

ACEngineering said:
No No and No!

Picture should say it all

Danger of catastrophic failure if I attempt a repair?

ACEngineering · Oct 21, 2017

DrWazzock said:
Danger of catastrophic failure if I attempt a repair?

customer welded a crack were the pipe going in at the top of ram, he then went to lower the boom down and it spit the whole length of ram and dropped to the ground rather quickly all in the blink of an eye!

DrWazzock · Oct 21, 2017

ACEngineering said:
customer welded a crack were the pipe going in at the top of ram, he then went to lower the boom down and it spit the whole length of ram and dropped to the ground rather quickly all in the blink of an eye!

Noted, so won't be even attempting a repair. Crack is same position on ours. Our neighbour told us he had a ram split. I thought he meant the eye on the end of the ram. Didn't realise the cylinders could split in that way. Flipping heck.

ACEngineering · Oct 21, 2017

DrWazzock said:
Noted, so won't be even attempting a repair. Crack is same position on ours. Our neighbour told us he had a ram split. I thought he meant the eye on the end of the ram. Didn't realise the cylinders could split in that way. Flipping heck.

You seen the light then

Sharpy · Oct 22, 2017

I had the same problem on am MLA ram. It looked like the casing had been replaced before but a poor job made of refitting the end cap.
I took it to a specialist repair place who looked at it, said Manitou ram, no problem. He stripped it, turned the weld out on a lathe, welded it and tested it after rebuild. 400hrs later still fine.

MrNoo · Oct 22, 2017

Get it to Jason Hydraulics Ltd, Witney. They strip and re-build all types of rams (at a good price) Have been up there and seen some monster rams in their various lathes having the welds turned off. I would shudder to think what price a genuine Manitou ram would be new??

DrWazzock · Oct 22, 2017

Thanks for the info. I'll try a specialist repair shop.

Fairly annoyed that there has been no safety bulletin from Manitou on this issue and I have had to find this out by chance on a forum. I am guessing it's a fatigue issue but we have a Sanderson that has done much more work and never had a problem with a ram,

Never known any other other hydraulic ram here to have this problem and some getting on for 70 years old.

A poor do IMO, but thanks everyone for getting me up to speed on the problem.

Will 1594 · Oct 22, 2017

Sentex in scummy will be able to do it

AJR75 · Oct 23, 2017

Ours split on the end as well. We did repair it ourselves but it was a case of take off, complete strip down, turn up the casting in the lathe to get back to original material and it has been successful. Most probably NOT the thing to do in your average farm workshop given the potentially pitfalls.

cows sh#t me to tears · Oct 23, 2017

ACEngineering said:
No No and No!

Picture should say it all

Have the French not heard of seamless pipe

MIG welding without cracking

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