Difficult Soil at Fairford,Faringdon ,Burford Ploughing Match today 30/9/17

tomlad

Member
Location
nr. preston
been a match on next doors farm for several years , he always ploughs over the plots with his modern reversible , same depth as comp lads , 'to get soil right way up again ' then plough field as normal , I've never been able to see the sense tbh .
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
been a match on next doors farm for several years , he always ploughs over the plots with his modern reversible , same depth as comp lads , 'to get soil right way up again ' then plough field as normal , I've never been able to see the sense tbh .
If you plough the match plots at the same time as the unploughed land, you will turn up all the buried trash, and replant the weeds! reploughing the plots only does this but then, when the field is ploughed, all the trash is in the right place, buried.
 

tomlad

Member
Location
nr. preston
I absolutely agree harry
But he 'll be normally ploughing deeper that the 6 " match lads
At his 8 9 " id of thought he could just go straight thru
I get the point about no trash
Always seems to me like hes making work
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
If there are world style, and large reversable classes, they will be ploughing at 8". And a bit of extra depth will help pull the finish`s out.
 

Warnesworth

Member
BASE UK Member
Location
Chipping Norton
I have steward'ed the reversible classes at FFF&B for the last 7-8 years. When I first started we had five entrants across the two classes, this year we had 22! It seems to grow every year, so it can't be all bad. Yes, the conditions do sometimes leave a bit to be desired, especially when you are spread across two fields, but everyone gets on with it in good spirit which to my mind is the point.
Long may it continue.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
I have steward'ed the reversible classes at FFF&B for the last 7-8 years. When I first started we had five entrants across the two classes, this year we had 22! It seems to grow every year, so it can't be all bad. Yes, the conditions do sometimes leave a bit to be desired, especially when you are spread across two fields, but everyone gets on with it in good spirit which to my mind is the point.
Long may it continue.
And next to none in the premier class, the one which puts people through to the national, as area reps.Those are the people you want, every match has no trouble filling the multi furrow class. Visitors come to a ploughing match to see something special, not the same thing available over almost any hedge. World style, High cut, vintage and classic provide this, and therefore effort should be made to encourage them, and that means ploughable plots. Ploughing societies expect competitors to do their best for the society, is it to much to expect the society to do its best for the competitors?
When I first won the (Then) whole furrow class, using a 15 RSLD trailer plough and International W4 tractor, 1980 I believe, people came up from Somerset, and over from Hereford. It was similar in 1991 though kit had changed and it was now a semmi digger class and my kit comprised of a Fit 450 tractor, and ts 86 fitted with Fiskar bodies.
Now you have less than five in this class, and all local, numbers you may have but overall quality has vanished apart from a flickering flame in the shape of JL.
 

Roy Stokes

Member
Location
East Shropshire
If you plough the match plots at the same time as the unploughed land, you will turn up all the buried trash, and replant the weeds! reploughing the plots only does this but then, when the field is ploughed, all the trash is in the right place, buried.

Most would put a dose of Roundup on before a match and most are kitted up with drills to cope with trash so double ploughing is a waste of time and money, however if the EU have their way Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup will be no longer available and good ploughing will have to make a return to arable farms
 
Match ploughmen have got to learn what ever ground they are given they have got to do the best job they can and learn how to plough all sorts of soil. Two very different types of soil ,can not plough boy land ever where. Wawick and fff&b
 

agriboy

New Member
Match ploughmen have got to learn what ever ground they are given they have got to do the best job they can and learn how to plough all sorts of soil. Two very different types of soil ,can not plough boy land ever where. Wawick and fff&b

I agree. It will be a while before I am challenging the very best........ although it wont be for lack of trying. But it seems to me the conditions are the same for everyone on the day, so make the most of it. The best men seem to have a habit of pulling it out of the bag in all conditions, as do the best in any sport.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Most would put a dose of Roundup on before a match and most are kitted up with drills to cope with trash so double ploughing is a waste of time and money, however if the EU have their way Glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup will be no longer available and good ploughing will have to make a return to arable farms
Quite so, but perhaps the man likes to keep the chemicals down, or perhaps hates the patch of freshly washed trash visible after the first rain on the match area?
By the time they have got rid of roundup, you will need an electric tractor, how many and how wide will the furrows be that that can pull?
 

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
Match ploughmen have got to learn what ever ground they are given they have got to do the best job they can and learn how to plough all sorts of soil. Two very different types of soil ,can not plough boy land ever where. Wawick and fff&b
Whilst I agree to a point, but when is ploughing ploughing? Pushing soil 10" across per furrow is not my idea of ploughing, here with our brash we call it bulldozing, fields that tend to do this I use a cultivator instead of a plough.
I also agree that it is the same for everybody but I suspect you'd be mighty fed up having driven an hour and a half to make a mess in a field which is what we all seemed to do. If the 3 F's was a qualifier, it would have been pot luck if you made it to the Nationals next year. I would not liked to have been a judge, I guess you would have won your class on straight even split, maybe the crown, in's and out's and finish. The mid work was pants for everyone, myself included and still came 2nd.
Regarding "boys land" I would much rather plough something with a bit of body to it, e.g. The Crewkerne match a few weeks ago or the YFC match at Winchcombe the weekend just gone. It shows the furrows much better and also shows all the mistakes too but is certainly (as a ploughman) much more rewarding to do.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Match ploughmen have got to learn what ever ground they are given they have got to do the best job they can and learn how to plough all sorts of soil. Two very different types of soil ,can not plough boy land ever where. Wawick and fff&b
That response typifies the attitude of many societies, who forget that without the ploughmen, there is no match! The match ploughmen should be honoured guests, but usually they are treated as a necessary evil.Many travel long distances to attend matches, the organisers of which use the ploughmen's skills to sell their event, this being so, then the ploughmen have a right to expect consistent ploughable land , so that they can exhibit that skill, not look fools in the eyes of the paying public. Public who wont be so keen to pay next year if the work is poor.
The oft heard mantra, "Its the same for everyone" does not make it right. Top sportsmen always compete on quality sites, Lords for cricket, Wembley for football,Brands for motor racing. Match ploughmen dont expect that level of support, we would be quite happy with stone free land which will leave the plough, and preferably level but if on a slope up and down ,not across.
Organising societies would do well to remember, its their event, not the ploughmens, but without them there is no event. As I have said, they expect us to put on the show, in return we would like to have land which permits this.
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
That response typifies the attitude of many societies, who forget that without the ploughmen, there is no match! The match ploughmen should be honoured guests, but usually they are treated as a necessary evil.Many travel long distances to attend matches, the organisers of which use the ploughmen's skills to sell their event, this being so, then the ploughmen have a right to expect consistent ploughable land , so that they can exhibit that skill, not look fools in the eyes of the paying public. Public who wont be so keen to pay next year if the work is poor.
The oft heard mantra, "Its the same for everyone" does not make it right. Top sportsmen always compete on quality sites, Lords for cricket, Wembley for football,Brands for motor racing. Match ploughmen dont expect that level of support, we would be quite happy with stone free land which will leave the plough, and preferably level but if on a slope up and down ,not across.
Organising societies would do well to remember, its their event, not the ploughmens, but without them there is no event. As I have said, they expect us to put on the show, in return we would like to have land which permits this.

Just out of interest Harry, which match do you run?
There are a good number of us running matches who oft wonder is it worth the hassle. At Scarcroft we have purposefully kept entry fees low. We are not after big profits but aim primarily to cover costs. We have another arm which is Friends of Scarcroft & District Ploughing Society which is financially independent. It's aim is to raise charitable funds. At least £650 is raised annually for deserving charities.
Please note we are not using ploughmen to sell our event.

We do not have paying public. Classes are matched as best we can to the available land, some of which can be stony. Some of our limestone soils stick even to bright Kristeel. It is an organisers nightmare conjoined to the nightmare of finding judges, the nightmare of watching the weather, the nightmare of getting up to 100 wagons, pickups and trailers and another 100 spectators cars safely back out of a ring fence and back onto busy main and very fast roads.

You would do well to take a step back Harry, take a reality check and realise what it takes to organise a good match. There is enough hassle without gripes about plots. I did have a chuckle when the landowner had said the field was fairly uniform despite some people thought they had been badly done to with their plot. Could it simply be that those who 'got the best land' simply were better at it or had ploughs which were running better.

That's before we address the gripes about judging - but that's another story.......
 
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Bruce Almighty

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Warwickshire
Like I said before, heavy land sites are ok if it's dry.
Car parking & trade stands don't like mud.
When your arranging a match 12 months in advance, who knows what the weather will bring.

A difficulty we also have with the Forest is hedgelaying, not only do you have to find a good ploughing match site, you also need some suitable hedge for 10-15 competitors
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Just out of interest Harry, which match do you run?
There are a good number of us running matches who oft wonder is it worth the hassle. At Scarcroft we have purposefully kept entry fees low. We are not after big profits but aim primarily to cover costs. We have another arm which is Friends of Scarcroft & District Ploughing Society which is financially independent. It's aim is to raise charitable funds. At least £650 is raised annually for deserving charities.
Please note we are not using ploughmen to sell our event.

We do not have paying public. Classes are matched as best we can to the available land, some of which can be stony. Some of our limestone soils stick even to bright Kristeel. It is an organisers nightmare conjoined to the nightmare of finding judges, the nightmare of watching the weather, the nightmare of getting up to 100 wagons and trailers and another 100 spectators cars safely back out of a ring fence and back onto busy main and very fast roads.

You would do well to take a step back Harry, take a reality check and realise what it takes to organise a good match. There is enough hassle without gripes about plots. I did have a chuckle when the landowner had said the field was fairly uniform despite some people thought they had been badly done to with their plot. Could it simply be that those who 'got the best land' simply were better at it or had ploughs which were running better.

That's before we address the gripes about judging - but that's another story.......
The main attraction at your event are the ploughmen, without their skills, you have no event, so you are using their skills to market an event.
I used to help run the Cotswold and dist vintage match, now long gone, as is I believe the society.We were in an area of poor ploughing land,but usually managed to find something which would plough.
 

Cordiale

Member
As a ploughman when I go to a match I want to plough a plot that is pleasing to the eye. If I am lucky enough to get a prize then so be it, but I want to be satisfied with my plot regardless of what the judges think.

As for conditions being the same for everyone, I don't quite buy that argument. I ploughed somewhere recently, there were about 30 two furrow contestants. Two thirds were on clean baled wheat straw, the rest me included were on spring barely stubble, the crop had been laid and not even combined in places, the straw had been swathed and baled but part rows left all over the plots, and to add insult to injury the soil stuck to the boards. But what really wrankled me was the fact that the demonstrators were put on clean baled wheat stubble, when surely they would have been better in tougher conditions showing how their modern ploughs cope with and bury anything.
Rant over.
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
The main attraction at your event are the ploughmen, without their skills, you have no event, so you are using their skills to market an event.
I used to help run the Cotswold and dist vintage match, now long gone, as is I believe the society.We were in an area of poor ploughing land,but usually managed to find something which would plough.

A ploughing match is not a trade off Harry. We put on a ploughing match to which all persuasions of ploughmen are welcome. We put on a ploughing match at which skill levels vary from the lowliest and most humbled novice to the more expert amongst us. Showcasing their skills is not the main issue. Competing against like minded individuals is. Their presence at a ploughing match is more'n like for one of or a combination of the following.
1 Their competetive spirit and will to win.
2 For some, to progress to achieving National / International honours.
3 They find the social interaction of a ploughing match appealing.

The skills of the ploughmen are not the crux. Our staging a ploughing match is, as is any other match staged by any society you care to mention.

Whilst we welcome the public with open arms, they are secondary to the main event. We do not market our event. It is there for those who wish to attend.

Surely if showcasing were the issue and we want the (not paying at ours)public to see the ultimate job, then perhaps we should allow 'extraneous attachments' hydraulic or electric adjustment - even handling!
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
As a ploughman when I go to a match I want to plough a plot that is pleasing to the eye. If I am lucky enough to get a prize then so be it, but I want to be satisfied with my plot regardless of what the judges think.

As for conditions being the same for everyone, I don't quite buy that argument. I ploughed somewhere recently, there were about 30 two furrow contestants. Two thirds were on clean baled wheat straw, the rest me included were on spring barely stubble, the crop had been laid and not even combined in places, the straw had been swathed and baled but part rows left all over the plots, and to add insult to injury the soil stuck to the boards. But what really wrankled me was the fact that the demonstrators were put on clean baled wheat stubble, when surely they would have been better in tougher conditions showing how their modern ploughs cope with and bury anything.
Rant over.
Quite.Perhaps some of the problem is that organising societies are of course local, so fail to appreciate the effort some competitors put in to attend their event, couple that with the "its only a bit of fun" idea, and season with "its the same for everyone", and soon any old field will do. Most competitors are craftsmen who want to do a good job, and have something to be proud of at the finish. Something they can stand at the end of, and explain how and why things have been done to the members of the public who express interest. Its heart breaking to travel a long distance to find you spend all day towing large lumps of the field about, ending up with a plot that looked far better before you started!
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
A ploughing match is not a trade off Harry. We put on a ploughing match to which all persuasions of ploughmen are welcome. We put on a ploughing match at which skill levels vary from the lowliest and most humbled novice to the more expert amongst us. Showcasing their skills is not the main issue. Competing against like minded individuals is. Their presence at a ploughing match is more'n like for one of or a combination of the following.
1 Their competetive spirit and will to win.
2 For some, to progress to achieving National / International honours.
3 They find the social interaction of a ploughing match appealing.

The skills of the ploughmen are not the crux. Our staging a ploughing match is, as is any other match staged by any society you care to mention.

Whilst we welcome the public with open arms, they are secondary to the main event. We do not market our event. It is there for those who wish to attend.

Surely if showcasing were the issue and we want the (not paying at ours)public to see the ultimate job, then perhaps we should allow 'extraneous attachments' hydraulic or electric adjustment - even handling!
Perhaps the word market is incorrect for your match at least, but any match with an admission fee for the public makes this questionable. However, I stand by the fact that,organisers expect the entrants to do their best, why is it wrong for entrants to expect the same.
The match which spawned this thread is well known for bad land, which is a shame, as there is ploughable land in its area. The two world style competitors there this year could not plough at all, yet both made the plough off at the national. What good is there in providing such a poor site? Quality ploughmen dont attend,( the outsider in the world style class swears he will never attend again, so its back to one quality man) the public dont see anything different to that available from a glance over any hedge, so feel let down, novices get dispirited, and everyone leaves in a unhappy frame of mind. In my view, cancellation would be preferable.I would have much more respect for the organisers if they stood up and said, "No match this year lads, we cant find a decent site for you". Years ago there was reasonable land, I know, I have won it twice, and been placed often, much more effort needs to be put into finding sites and persuading landowners to host the match. They even had television celebs ( Simon Groom, of Blue Peter fame I believe) ploughing there in 1981!
 

Pilatus

Member
Location
cotswolds
So from what I read in these posts, match ploughing has very little to do with showing what commercial ploughing should look like. I say this as I see for ploughing matches a few of you expect only the best soil conditions, which l understand to a point, but in commercial ploughing you have to cope the best you can with what you’ve got soil and plough.
I think many members of the general public that go to ploughing marches, just go for a day in the countryside, not to be too critical of the competitors ploughing.
 

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