- Location
- Montgomeryshire
We are already sequesting carbon and building OM, as @Clive is attempting to emulate. Farms with livestock & grass are ahead of the game @gone up the hill .
George Eustace says we have to improve soil health
- Thread starter curlietailz
- Start date
We are already sequesting carbon and building OM, as @Clive is attempting to emulate. Farms with livestock & grass are ahead of the game @gone up the hill .
- Location
- Lincolnshire
If it works as requires and delivers then all well and good. My worry is that anything involving the RPA is 99% guaranteed to be a screw up. I'd imagine it could get awfully complicated as well if their track record is anything to go by.
And what about the pioneers who people like myself have learned from? Will they be rewarded retrospectively or have built up historic entitlements? Seems a bit unfair that they have stuck their necks out and developed a system then Johnny come lately gets the sub.
Still, it's a move in the right direction if they are intent on throwing money at us,
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
I can see it now.. amongst a raft of new rules we will see
Arable subs will only go to the direct drillers...
Fields will be tested for organic matter every year with penalties for loss..
All fungicides will be banned to protect soil fauna, all herbicides and insecticides too...
Land will not be allowed to be left ploughed over winter...
Think there has been a back door deal with the greens for a few votes to prop up the gov..
Arable subs will only go to the direct drillers...
Fields will be tested for organic matter every year with penalties for loss..
All fungicides will be banned to protect soil fauna, all herbicides and insecticides too...
Land will not be allowed to be left ploughed over winter...
Think there has been a back door deal with the greens for a few votes to prop up the gov..
Cowabunga
Member
- Location
- Ceredigion,Wales
Yes, mostly by keeping cows off fields when its wet. The ground pressure exerted by a cow's hoof is much much greater and goes deeper than any tractor and trailer in the vast majority of cases.
So extended grazing should be out of bounds if soil health is held to be of great significance.
I agree, It bugs me that all these schemes never seem to reward early adopter and innovators ! yet these are the people that are the most essential in system development
If anyone involved in drafting these schemes ever reads this please take note !
Campani
Member
-grassland aereators
- mob grazing
-bringing livestock in earlier
- moving cattle feeders
- doing soil tests and applying the right amount of lime.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
I can see organic matter testing linked to payments will be a nightmare. So much room for imprecision and false readings. The French are doing something like this, although I have no idea of the exact details.
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gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Aye right, so on land that your are not allowed to disturb the surface you would use an Aereator?
And you would also use it on good grassland that is too steep to even drive on?
Put it on lime and the price of lime will go up in price by the amount of the grant/sub to do it!
Bringing in cattle early is okay but will the grant/sub cover the cost of the extra use of straw given its high price?? ( now dearer than grain )
farmerm
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
I think you really need 10 years tests to track any real trend, governments and rpa rules work on far shorter cycles..
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Who is going to pay for all these tests and verify them so you can get the subs/ grants??
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
And there's so many problems with bulk density and sampling depth. There are so few good tests to measure soil health (because it's such a vague and complex area) that if they try and link money to such tests I think it'll be a mess.
ETA: I wonder if they could take ditch water samples and go on those. Still fraught with ways to screw it up.
Campani
Member
your right, terrible idea let's have subs for birds and need instead.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
If it's like sampling land for for P, K etc. to receive BPS sub, then we will!
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
Farm productivity grants are IMO. Indeed they're so focussed on the early adoption they'll fund you for an autonomous tractor that you can't even buy yet!
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
That type of scheme might work on arable land but on hilly livestock farms like cover most of the UK ( but are classed as lowland ) then it will be unworkable.
Campani
Member
Grants for tree planting and releasing lynx then???
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
So unless the grants/ sub is high then most of them will be swallowed up in being able to claim them let alone the goods needed to improve the soil.
If farm gate prices are high farmers will invest in these areas anyway.
Farm gate prices are low then farmers wont/ are unable to.
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
Plenty of grants for tree planting already but Gove said on TV the other day he wants to see millions of acres of more trees planted which no doubt will be included in the new scheme being talked about.
I can see it now, you get x in subs per acre across your farm but have to plant 3% per year of your land in trees to get these subs!
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
You could argue it the other way around (I have no idea which is the right way round): If profitability is really squeezed, people will have to protect their soil to avoid spiralling into terminal decline. If profitability is really good, people become lazy and won't bother.
Feldspar
Member
- Location
- Essex, Cambs and Suffolk
We've had tree planting grants already so nothing new in that respect. Will they have to up the payment rates considerably to actually persuade people to do it in a big way?
gone up the hill
Member
- Location
- Devon
If you haven't the cash/ cashflow due to low prices what is the first thing you do? cut inputs like Lime etc