Merkel has hours left to form a government

Danllan · Nov 21, 2017

Ashtree said:
But, but, but....... Brexit was never about immigration say the Brexiteers on here. It’s about “sovereignty”.

Have you already forgotten the debate pre-referendum? Sovereignty was most important to many, me included, but it was always made plain that uncontrollable immigration was a very real concern too.

The ROI has been, to no small extent, insulated from that by the UK; it will be interesting to see the subject's position change in Irish priorities in coming years. Particularly if 'Merkel's million' get to bring their friends and relations over, as would seem likely if the ECHR's past record is anything to go by.

baabaa · Nov 22, 2017

Ashtree said:
Get real man. Germans might decide stuff for the EU, but the EU don’t get to decide stuff for the Germans. Mutti Merkel will be back I reckon.

but wait according to you were the germans not very happy under merkel
why is she now facing old damocles sword?
perhaps you like to tell us of your own strong stable government?
oh wait

https://www.irishcentral.com/opinio...wn-ireland-s-deputy-leader-frances-fitzgerald

arcobob · Nov 22, 2017

Ashtree said:
But, but, but....... Brexit was never about immigration say the Brexiteers on here. It’s about “sovereignty”.

Sovereignty is all about being in control of one's own destiny and as such covers immigration, fisheries policy, fiscal policy, world trade and most of all corrupt meddling bureaucrats who are unelected but running our affairs. Maybe that explains what Brexiters voted for.

jendan · Nov 22, 2017

arcobob said:
Sovereignty is all about being in control of one's own destiny and as such covers immigration, fisheries policy, fiscal policy, world trade and most of all corrupt meddling bureaucrats who are unelected but running our affairs. Maybe that explains what Brexiters voted for.

So you think that Brexit will mean that we are in control of our own "unelected corrupt meddling bureaucrats" soon to have their numbers swelled by 000s more?

arcobob · Nov 22, 2017

jendan said:
So you think that Brexit will mean that we are in control of our own "unelected corrupt meddling bureaucrats" soon to have their numbers swelled by 000s more?

That is a hope and an aim. In the current situation there is no hope unless of course you strongly support a European federal state with its own army and the inevitable increasing financial demands to feed the increasing populations of lame ducks.

wanton dwarf · Nov 22, 2017

arcobob said:
Sovereignty is all about being in control of one's own destiny and as such covers immigration, fisheries policy, fiscal policy, world trade and most of all corrupt meddling bureaucrats who are unelected but running our affairs. Maybe that explains what Brexiters voted for.

Looking forward to the future & sorting out the problems created in our recent past

Time to reaffirm our culture & our identity

Time to reaffirm our christian values that formed the greatest & one of the oldest democracies in the world

I am not religious but I know where my values & sense of identity comes from ... stop the destruction of our history & culture

Danllan · Nov 22, 2017

jendan said:
So you think that Brexit will mean that we are in control of our own "unelected corrupt meddling bureaucrats" soon to have their numbers swelled by 000s more?

Explain.

Surely we are supporting whole legions of EU related bureaucrats already, both directly and indirectly because we have to pay our own people to sort out EU diktats? If they are our own we will have to pay for all of them, we will have ability to hold to account and to sack those who appoint them - i.e. politicians - which is something we can't do within the EU because the EC appoint all and they are unaccountable. When we can sack the appointers, they will be careful about the number and nature of their appointees.

rob1 · Nov 22, 2017

Danllan said:
Explain.

Surely we are supporting whole legions of EU related bureaucrats already, both directly and indirectly because we have to pay our own people to sort out EU diktats? If they are our own we will have to pay for all of them, we will have ability to hold to account and to sack those who appoint them - i.e. politicians - which is something we can't do within the EU because the EC appoint all and they are unaccountable. When we can sack the appointers, they will be careful about the number and nature of their appointees.

Hopefully but to be fair I dont see local politicians holding back the pen pushers, they just get rid of the front line staff

wanton dwarf · Nov 22, 2017

Danllan said:
Explain.

Surely we are supporting whole legions of EU related bureaucrats already, both directly and indirectly because we have to pay our own people to sort out EU diktats? If they are our own we will have to pay for all of them, we will have ability to hold to account and to sack those who appoint them - i.e. politicians - which is something we can't do within the EU because the EC appoint all and they are unaccountable. When we can sack the appointers, they will be careful about the number and nature of their appointees.

Yeah it's the same thoughts a lot of people are going to have & quite correct as well

BUT

The Liberal Elite will attempt to rinse & repeat what they have currently with the EU. Where I live Conservatives & Labour & Greens work against the general public towards their own agendas & pockets - the "Establishment" will continue to work towards themselves ensuring all the levers & pulleys in place are funded to suppress you & me.

Gove will put in a new environment agency ... for two reasons, 1) to ensure the "useful idiots" have a wage, controlled & are in place to regulate 2) to suppress the public via the "Useful idiots"

That model has been used throughout the past decades to implement most EU policy & it won't change until you get rid of the political parties & the civil service. We could get there but it's going to need a massive ground swell push against them all. I live in hope but I also live in fear.

Even before that happens the need & idea for change has got to be implanted in enough minds for them to vote in the required manner

Ashtree · Nov 22, 2017

baabaa said:
but wait according to you were the germans not very happy under merkel
why is she now facing old damocles sword?
perhaps you like to tell us of your own strong stable government?
oh wait
https://www.irishcentral.com/opinio...wn-ireland-s-deputy-leader-frances-fitzgerald

Ho hum ....... Ian Paisley Snr., was absolutely correct when he said “the British can’t be trusted over the Union”.
You my dear fellow are about to learn that. When it gets to the business end of doing a trade deal with the EU, each side will find it convenient and necessary to throw a bone or two to the other side. NI will be one such bone. Welcome to your new found special status / special relationship / regulatory convergence with the ROI.
Last paragraph in this article. Varadker will have his effigies burnt on top of those magnificent piles of pallets you guys build and burn at regular weekends.

The British Machine Is ‘Getting Its Act Together’ on Brexit https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...nses-breakthrough-as-british-machine-gears-up

Danllan · Nov 22, 2017

Ashtree said:
Ho hum ....... Ian Paisley Snr., was absolutely correct when he said “the British can’t be trusted over the Union”.
You my dear fellow are about to learn that. When it gets to the business end of doing a trade deal with the EU, each side will find it convenient and necessary to throw a bone or two to the other side. NI will be one such bone. Welcome to your new found special status / special relationship / regulatory convergence with the ROI.
Last paragraph in this article. Varadker will have his effigies burnt on top of those magnificent piles of pallets you guys build and burn at regular weekends.

The British Machine Is ‘Getting Its Act Together’ on Brexit https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...nses-breakthrough-as-british-machine-gears-up

Let's leave no room for misunderstanding, you think that the UK will put NI aside? I can tell you that is about as likely as Dublin handing over Donegal to the UK just to tidy the map up a bit...

.

The UK is one country, I and the vast, vast majority of others here see it as that and there is no difference between Dungiven, Amersham, Ayr and Carmarthen in any way other than geography. I only know two British people who don't share this view, every other person I know believes in the United Kingdom both literally and metaphorically. (You can forget about Slough and I'll not mention Finglas again

)

baabaa · Nov 22, 2017

Ashtree said:
Ho hum ....... Ian Paisley Snr., was absolutely correct when he said “the British can’t be trusted over the Union”.
You my dear fellow are about to learn that. When it gets to the business end of doing a trade deal with the EU, each side will find it convenient and necessary to throw a bone or two to the other side. NI will be one such bone. Welcome to your new found special status / special relationship / regulatory convergence with the ROI.
Last paragraph in this article. Varadker will have his effigies burnt on top of those magnificent piles of pallets you guys build and burn at regular weekends.

The British Machine Is ‘Getting Its Act Together’ on Brexit https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...nses-breakthrough-as-british-machine-gears-up

i note your reluctance to discuss your own stable government

would it be the fact that leo requires the support of i believe 9 independants
plus the fact that the opposition dont want to be involved in government while brexit is ongoing keeps him in power by his fingernails

as for your crystal ball gazing well we know how accurate that has been
jeez the bookies must be smiling when they see you coming

phillipe · Nov 22, 2017

jendan said:
Except in China.

And pakistan ,oh yes and india

jendan · Nov 23, 2017

Danllan said:
Explain.

Surely we are supporting whole legions of EU related bureaucrats already, both directly and indirectly because we have to pay our own people to sort out EU diktats? If they are our own we will have to pay for all of them, we will have ability to hold to account and to sack those who appoint them - i.e. politicians - which is something we can't do within the EU because the EC appoint all and they are unaccountable. When we can sack the appointers, they will be careful about the number and nature of their appointees.

It does not,nor will not work out like that post Brexit.Walter has put up a good post on this on another thread about total EU commission employees.It depends if you are talking about "bureaucrats" or civil servants both in the EU and the UK.The average Joe Bloggs life in this country is much more affected by civil servants down to County Council level than anything coming out of Brussels(and its not interpreting EU diktats either).

Danllan · Nov 23, 2017

jendan said:
It does not,nor will not work out like that post Brexit.Walter has put up a good post on this on another thread about total EU commission employees.It depends if you are talking about "bureaucrats" or civil servants both in the EU and the UK.The average Joe Bloggs life in this country is much more affected by civil servants down to County Council level than anything coming out of Brussels(and its not interpreting EU diktats either).

How many UK 'civil servants' do you think are employed to ensure that the EU's 'will' comes into being? I mean both in EU institutions and over here.

The point you make regarding the average person being affected most by CC work is well founded, but do you really think there is going to be a rush to have CC staffs increased to make up for lost bureaucrats elsewhere? Money alone would dictate otherwise. I'll admit that the further most senior politicians can push minor decision making and implementation from themselves, the happier they are; but, nonetheless, cost is going to be the most serious factor in all this, closely followed by recognisable accountability.

The majority of law imposed upon the UK by the EU (i.e. EC) has been in the form of Regulations and Directives, these are diktats by any other name, and it is these that do take up huge numbers of man-hours.

jendan · Nov 23, 2017

Danllan said:
How many UK 'civil servants' do you think are employed to ensure that the EU's 'will' comes into being? I mean both in EU institutions and over here.

The point you make regarding the average person being affected most by CC work is well founded, but do you really think there is going to be a rush to have CC staffs increased to make up for lost bureaucrats elsewhere? Money alone would dictate otherwise. I'll admit that the further most senior politicians can push minor decision making and implementation from themselves, the happier they are; but, nonetheless, cost is going to be the most serious factor in all this, closely followed by recognisable accountability.

The majority of law imposed upon the UK by the EU (i.e. EC) has been in the form of Regulations and Directives, these are diktats by any other name, and it is these that do take up huge numbers of man-hours.

I cant find any numbers,so will take your word for it,but am not entirely convinced.Once employed,pen pushing civil servants seem to be able to keep themselves in their jobs forever,or until they retire with a very good pension,then to be followed by another of the same ilk.

Danllan · Nov 23, 2017

jendan said:
I cant find any numbers,so will take your word for it,but am not entirely convinced.Once employed,pen pushing civil servants seem to be able to keep themselves in their jobs forever,or until they retire with a very good pension,then to be followed by another of the same ilk.

There are corollaries to Parkinson's law...

.

Hoorah, the rain that wasn't supposed to be here now isn't!

arcobob · Nov 23, 2017

Danllan said:
There are corollaries to Parkinson's law... .

Hoorah, the rain that wasn't supposed to be here now is isn't!

The DVLA are a fine example when it comes to following EU diktats but the knock on effect permeates well beyond their offices and increases workload on doctors, forcing them to fill in multiple forms of largely duplicated questions. We may not have a shortage of brain dead idiots to work at DVLA but we certainly have a shortage of doctors. Much of this work is created because everybody involved in decision making has to cover their backs from all angles in triplicate. The blame culture has a lot to answer for.

czechmate · Nov 23, 2017

arcobob said:
The DVLA are a fine example when it comes to following EU diktats but the knock on effect permeates well beyond their offices and increases workload on doctors, forcing them to fill in multiple forms of largely duplicated questions. We may not have a shortage of brain dead idiots to work at DVLA but we certainly have a shortage of doctors. Much of this work is created because everybody involved in decision making has to cover their backs from all angles in triplicate. The blame culture has a lot to answer for.

Yes, like blame the eu

wanton dwarf · Nov 23, 2017

arcobob said:
The DVLA are a fine example when it comes to following EU diktats but the knock on effect permeates well beyond their offices and increases workload on doctors, forcing them to fill in multiple forms of largely duplicated questions. We may not have a shortage of brain dead idiots to work at DVLA but we certainly have a shortage of doctors. Much of this work is created because everybody involved in decision making has to cover their backs from all angles in triplicate. The blame culture has a lot to answer for.

When you have lost all your industry what are people going to be employed to do ?

I know it's an exaggeration ... but really we have people employed in many 1000s of jobs deliberately targetting people in our own nation to actively suppress jobs, output & skills.

At a certain point you have to look at the whole operation of government and say just WTF are they doing ?

TB is a good example ... could have stopped 1,000,000s of animals dying 2 decades ago by a small cull in a few counties. All because of a Vegan with a massive ego. And to cap it all he got a knighthood.

IMHO this is more than a blame culture it's organised destruction.

Merkel has hours left to form a government

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Up to 25%

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100% I’ve had enough of farming!

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