JakePRichards
New Member
- Location
- Sutton Bonington | Suffolk
I'm trying to find out whether people have tried growing cover crops on very heavy clay. If so, what mixes were used and were they successful/viable?
Cover crops on heavy soil
- Thread starter JakePRichards
- Start date
My thoughts exactly - tillage radish perhaps to get some drainage going over winter, or perhaps rye and vetch - something that actively grows over winter and very early spring thereby taking up moisture before destruction and a spring crop?
- Location
- Gainsborough, Lincolnshire
Would the best way to establish these be via the subcast method?
I like to subsoil in the autumn before a spring crop - so maybe dribbling on some cover crop seed at the same time might be the way to go?!
I like to subsoil in the autumn before a spring crop - so maybe dribbling on some cover crop seed at the same time might be the way to go?!
- Location
- Essex/Herts Border
I have got Pedders mix #1 (oats vetch sunflower peas buckwheat linseed millet and fodder radish and #2 (same as #1 minus the fodder radish) and Bailey Custom Mix (vetch phacellia radish linseed) going in this summer onto some pretty heavy clays in places before spring beans and barley next year.
My experiences so far of some DSV cover crop mixes were that having rye in a mix is not ideal on heavy land as it covers the ground extensively and even when sprayed off in feb it keeps the ground underneath much wetter than cover crop mixes without rye in. A thin covering of oats should be fine but I would stick to brassicas, vetches, phacelia etc.
I am not using any graminaceous type plants before spring barley only before spring beans to avoid alleopathic effects on the emerging barley.
Link to my cover crop trial I did last year on some relatively heavy land:
http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/my-cover-crop-trial-14-15.49336/
My experiences so far of some DSV cover crop mixes were that having rye in a mix is not ideal on heavy land as it covers the ground extensively and even when sprayed off in feb it keeps the ground underneath much wetter than cover crop mixes without rye in. A thin covering of oats should be fine but I would stick to brassicas, vetches, phacelia etc.
I am not using any graminaceous type plants before spring barley only before spring beans to avoid alleopathic effects on the emerging barley.
Link to my cover crop trial I did last year on some relatively heavy land:
http://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/my-cover-crop-trial-14-15.49336/
shakerator
Member
- Location
- LINCS
But long term removing water at depth even if it shades the surface and blocks the drill
The old man would always say "ah, but it's wet underneath". But I am on tracks, and as long as I am not making a mess at drilling depth in spring I am not really bothered how dry it is 6" down. We will persist with trying a few covers, but oats sprayed off in late Feb were still bulky in mid April. And mustard sprayed off just makes brown slime. So, although I like the idea, we must stick to things that are inexpensive and also useful. Next year, pre-linseed, we will use a low rate (maybe 50kg/ha) of *royalty paid* FSS oats, and probably a similar amount of spring beans. This gives us plenty of time to spray off etc before the mid-April drilling of linseed. For our spring cereals, we will leave bare ground as I want to be drilling as early as conditions allow.
Farmer Miggins
Member
- Location
- East Anglia
An interesting issue as to whether transpiration removing water from the soil from slow growing cover crop beats rainfall in an average UK winter (over the whole winter, notwithstanding good early growth, when water will be sucked up). There might be some benefit of the growing roots, plant structure of the cover etc improving drainage. If the soil structure is good after a good previous crop, I would say that the drainage benefit would be minimal.
On heavy land, having a crop to remove moisture from the profile in summer is very important, viz the nasty structureless slop left behind after uncropped set-aside in the '90's.
In continental climates cover crops are used to retain moisture over the winter, owing to the fact that they stop run off of, often very heavy, rain.
My gut feeling goes with a well prepared, level surface for quick drying in the spring with least surface trash on heavy land for spring drilling.
On heavy land, having a crop to remove moisture from the profile in summer is very important, viz the nasty structureless slop left behind after uncropped set-aside in the '90's.
In continental climates cover crops are used to retain moisture over the winter, owing to the fact that they stop run off of, often very heavy, rain.
My gut feeling goes with a well prepared, level surface for quick drying in the spring with least surface trash on heavy land for spring drilling.
shakerator
Member
- Location
- LINCS
Why not disk your covers in at 2 inches and get on early , with no grasses in your mix ahead of cereals. Some disturbance will buy you 10 days in spring imho
scottishsnake
Member
Hi guys, realise this is an old thread, I'm up in NE Scotland where the plough is king and min till has been tried and dropped by a few local pioneers ten years ago. No idea why, but they're not stupid men, there must be a reason. Having bought a wide wing dalbo dinco thing purely as a grubber a few years back, I thought sod it, since i have the stubble cultivator I'm gonna change my knackered drill for one with disc coulters and try min till on my light sandy land, which blows hellish when ploughed. I've had great success with better moisture retention and on the really light land, consistently better crops. Now in year 4 on some bits of land, and being aware that compaction is gonna become an issue, I've bought myself a shiny set of discs with flatlift style subsoiler tines which I can lift out with hydraulics (teagle vario) . I have a couple of questions, first being, what depth do you min till guys work the tines at? plough depth? I was figuring to subsoil only every 3rd year on light land, more often on chunkyer stuff. The other thing I'm wondering is, is it realistic to hope to try min till on my very heavy, horrible white clay crap that is always either soup, or like driving over a collapsed house? Bearing in mind three years in 5 there's little hope of getting on after harvest to do anything, and that generally it's april before it's dry enough to plough? Spring cropping only, obviously
shakerator
Member
- Location
- LINCS
My situation is different to yours re day length rainfall etc I'm sure
But what I have found is:
On sand getting a stand year in year out with no till is easy. I am not sure re water retention. I believe I am running g into rhizoctonia problems in certain crops, and an uncertain on whether this will resolve given time (too much organic matter undecayed?)
On our clays , obviously a typical year we get more water retained than removed from cropping transpiration etc. However, we don't get the above issues, and the soil structure only improves, even if at saturation. However , we have to balance the water equation to ensure adequate oxygen and root growth in no till. Can cover crops bridge the gap? I think so, although a perennial crop would be better in my view. These are all quite outside the box ideas, but if you keep everything the same in the hope that min till no till will work, I fear the law of averages will catch up with you and swamp your crops and soil. I only view tillage as an evaporation tool now (nitrogen does the same thing by drawing water from below ground to above biomass, but not equally through the soil profile, and an expensive way of reducing soil moisture !)
scottishsnake
Member
Yeah, I'm definitely thinking I'm going to need to have a try some kinda cover crop approach with the heavy land rather than just go at it like I do with the light land, that's what got me to this thread in the first place. The truth with this horrible bit of ground is that even with a ploughing system, 5 years out of 10 it suffers from being too dry through the growing season and leaves a poor crop, 4 years out of 10 it's too wet during growing season and leaves a poor crop, and on year 10 (two years ago) it gets a perfect season to grow in, leaves a fantastic crop, which I then can't get the combine over because it rains for three weeks just prior to harvest. Be best planted in trees to be honest, but the potential for good crops is there, and I feel a new approach is warranted.
warksfarmer
Member
They all grow as they would anywhere. You need to terminate them earlier though otherwise the soil doesn’t dry out for establishing spring crops from autumn establish cover crops.