Heated Multispan Polytunnels?

Chris F · Feb 19, 2018

I'm glad I'm not going mad (or totally gullible)! Although I think its bonkers that this is possible under RHI scheme - but if it is then should be good for some farmers. I'd like to see all the other costs, like construction and maintenance built in.

Daniel Larn · Feb 20, 2018

It's the other costs for sure that will make or break it. End use is also important to consider.

We found the maintenance to be too high, and the sheeting just isn't robust enough.

I have heard that when claiming RHI for polytunnels, you have to keep up on maintenance a lot more. As you have to ensure the insulative properties of the tunnel are not compromised.

I'd be interested in hearing more details about it, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

Doing it for the kids · Feb 20, 2018

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has fitted a typical poly tunnel and had it signed off to be heated under the RHI.

I doubt there are any out there, I looked into it when the scheme first came out and was told no way.

If you have to start modifying / double lining / insulating the poly tunnel then surely that somewhat looses the concept?

Ebtech Group · Feb 20, 2018

Gentlemen.

Let me introduce myself, I am Matt Blood, MD of the Ebtech Group that was making the heat pump / polytunnel offerings at the show.

Just to clarify the discussions, the offering being made are not polytunnels as I suspect are being referred to here - they are actually "multispan" tunnels, which do need planning permission and are only one step down from a commercial glasshouse.

We have installed a large number of heating systems in tunnels in Scotland ( even though we are based in East Yorkshire ), linked to biomass boilers and are fully RHI compliant. While some of these projects have been "multispan" tunnels, the majority have been multiple single tunnels.

The RHI has changed, and we would not suggest until we have investigated further that the individual tunnels are an eligible use under these new rules, but there is no reason that the "multispan" tunnels will not be eligible as they will require full planning permission, as would the alternative commercial glasshouse build that we can also offer.

Heating of "multispan" tunnels is nothing particularly new and isn't a "get rich quick" scheme like some ideas that have been passed through the RHI in recent years and is a legitimate business opportunity. I've been involved in the supply and installation of horticultural heating systems for 28 years, and if I remember correctly, the first multispan tunnels I ever supplied a heating system for was back in 1998.

Hope this clarifies the scenario ?

Daniel Larn · Feb 20, 2018

Hello Matt,

This is what I figured, do you have a website where we can find out more information about these polytunnels? I can only find your glasshouses on your website.

Ebtech Group · Feb 20, 2018

Daniel, you have just caught us on a week where we have our IT updating the web site, so not everything is live !

Updating to actually get all the new heat pump information up there.

Keep an eye on www.ebtech-group.co.uk and I'm sure it will be largely complete again by the end of the week.

If you email me on [email protected], we can open up a more specific conversation.

renewablejohn · Feb 20, 2018

Ebtech Group said:
Gentlemen.

Let me introduce myself, I am Matt Blood, MD of the Ebtech Group that was making the heat pump / polytunnel offerings at the show.

Just to clarify the discussions, the offering being made are not polytunnels as I suspect are being referred to here - they are actually "multispan" tunnels, which do need planning permission and are only one step down from a commercial glasshouse.

We have installed a large number of heating systems in tunnels in Scotland ( even though we are based in East Yorkshire ), linked to biomass boilers and are fully RHI compliant. While some of these projects have been "multispan" tunnels, the majority have been multiple single tunnels.

The RHI has changed, and we would not suggest until we have investigated further that the individual tunnels are an eligible use under these new rules, but there is no reason that the "multispan" tunnels will not be eligible as they will require full planning permission, as would the alternative commercial glasshouse build that we can also offer.

Heating of "multispan" tunnels is nothing particularly new and isn't a "get rich quick" scheme like some ideas that have been passed through the RHI in recent years and is a legitimate business opportunity. I've been involved in the supply and installation of horticultural heating systems for 28 years, and if I remember correctly, the first multispan tunnels I ever supplied a heating system for was back in 1998.

Hope this clarifies the scenario ?

So it is biomass boilers you have been installing so where does the heat pump come in or is that also linked to the biomass boiler and has nothing to do with ASHP or GSHP.

Ebtech Group · Feb 21, 2018

Following the demands of the RHI, obviously a majority of our installs over the past few years has been biomass, ranging from 50kW to 6MW.

With the decline in the biomass tariff's, the demand for that is waning, but the appetite for ground source and air source heat pumps has increased massively as shown through the number of enquiries being generated through our customer base.

So whilst biomass has without doubt being the leading factor in the last few years for us, we most definitely see the shift in interest to other areas of the renewables markets, including heat pumps. We have the "in house" skill set and experience of heat pumps, and we see this taking over the biomass as the lead product, along with waste to energy - another market that has been slowly gaining speed for us over the last 12 months.

renewablejohn · Feb 21, 2018

Ebtech Group said:
Following the demands of the RHI, obviously a majority of our installs over the past few years has been biomass, ranging from 50kW to 6MW.

With the decline in the biomass tariff's, the demand for that is waning, but the appetite for ground source and air source heat pumps has increased massively as shown through the number of enquiries being generated through our customer base.

So whilst biomass has without doubt being the leading factor in the last few years for us, we most definitely see the shift in interest to other areas of the renewables markets, including heat pumps. We have the "in house" skill set and experience of heat pumps, and we see this taking over the biomass as the lead product, along with waste to energy - another market that has been slowly gaining speed for us over the last 12 months.

So your just jumping on the bandwagon for ASHP and GSHP totally clueless as to whether they are the appropriate technology for use in a glasshouse environment.

Ebtech Group · Feb 21, 2018

John, if you read the earlier comments, you will see that I have been designing and installing heating systems for horticulture for 28 years, further supported by our colleagues in Holland with even more experience than myself.

Ebtech is a 10 year old company and as a separate division we also supply and erect commercial glasshouses complete with all the associated equipment.

I think we know what constitutes the requirements of the horticultural heating systems, down to the type of structure, the type of crop that grows within it and the environmental controls to maximise the efficiency of the installation. Everything is designed within good tolerance, not "on the limit". All temperature lifts are correctly calculated with the heat available from the heat pump.....

.....so jumping the bandwagon, certainly not.

renewablejohn · Feb 21, 2018

Ebtech Group said:
John, if you read the earlier comments, you will see that I have been designing and installing heating systems for horticulture for 28 years, further supported by our colleagues in Holland with even more experience than myself.

Ebtech is a 10 year old company and as a separate division we also supply and erect commercial glasshouses complete with all the associated equipment.

I think we know what constitutes the requirements of the horticultural heating systems, down to the type of structure, the type of crop that grows within it and the environmental controls to maximise the efficiency of the installation. Everything is designed within good tolerance, not "on the limit". All temperature lifts are correctly calculated with the heat available from the heat pump.....

.....so jumping the bandwagon, certainly not.

So show me the string of commercial glasshouses heated only by a GSHP or ASHP.

Ebtech Group · Feb 21, 2018

Obviously more than you think John - there is 30+ acres in the East Yorkshire area and similar down in Lincolnshire and a large number of growers looking for the next RHI based opportunity.

Without doubt, retrofit to an existing installation is not easy, and indeed there have been some stumbling blocks on projects "by others", where they have not understood the needs of commercial glasshouse growing, but that's where our expertise comes in to play over your usual "jump on the bandwagon" renewable energy company.

Where a system is built from new to match the heat pump installation, then there is no issue.

There is also the discussion of having two heating systems within a large glasshouse, where under bench / under crop heating is undertaken by the heat pump, with its lower pipe temperatures, as you would normally run whether on a boiler or not. Then your upper heating systems would then be supported by the boiler system running higher pipe temperatures. This only really comes into play where you are looking to run higher glasshouse temperatures. Lower glasshouse / tunnel temperatures are perfectly feasible for soft fruit installations.

I think you are confusing us for one of the regular "jump on the band wagon" renewable energy companies John - that is certainly what we are not. We where here doing heating systems for horticulture before the RHI and we fully intend on being here doing the same after the RHI....

Ebtech Group · Feb 21, 2018

...obviously every site has its limitations as to how much ground source heat an be generated, through available ground conditions, physical area available or whether there is physically the moving water available under the site.

So it doesn't and wont work for everybody, but potentially a massive financial advantage to the client if their site ticks all the right boxes.

renewablejohn · Feb 21, 2018

But are these sites ASHP or GSHP only. I only know of sites with biomass backup so I would be interested in these sites your referring to and what winter based crops they are growing say from November through to March.

You could also have said that East Yorkshire and Lincolnshire are Geothermal hot spots for deep drilling the aquifer and as far removed from the coil of pipe buried in the farmers field as you can get.

Ebtech Group · Feb 21, 2018

The ones that are installed to date generally have fossil fuel or biomass backup, as they are on existing sites where the installations are not specifically designed to work on low pipe temperatures. They could be made to operate specifically on GSHP, but the capital cost of doing so can be disproportionate to the project by the time pipework has been replaced or added to provide the larger surface areas required to give sufficient output.

We have sites that are running only on biomass, albeit I am not a lover of this, and where possible I would always recommend that a customer has some form of backup, unless they are specifically not concerned that a period without heat would not damage the crop, or set the crop too far back.

What we are proposing with the GSHP installations are new heating systems in new build glasshouse and multispan tunnel builds, with systems specifically designed to achieve the required air temperatures using the lower pipe temperatures, and operating on multiple heat pumps to provide a good level of redundancy in the event of breakdown or service and efficiently operate in cascade in low demand scenarios, therefore not needing any fossil fuel or biomass backup.

If you have a specific project that you are thinking about doing John, email me on [email protected], and we'll get some specifics and viabilities put together to see what can and can't be done for you, followed by some ground tests to see what can realistically be extracted with the quality of land you have, the area of land you have, or what water conditions you have if that is also an option.

akaPABLO01 · Mar 21, 2018

Ebtech Group said:
Gentlemen.

Let me introduce myself, I am Matt Blood, MD of the Ebtech Group that was making the heat pump / polytunnel offerings at the show.

Just to clarify the discussions, the offering being made are not polytunnels as I suspect are being referred to here - they are actually "multispan" tunnels, which do need planning permission and are only one step down from a commercial glasshouse.

We have installed a large number of heating systems in tunnels in Scotland ( even though we are based in East Yorkshire ), linked to biomass boilers and are fully RHI compliant. While some of these projects have been "multispan" tunnels, the majority have been multiple single tunnels.

The RHI has changed, and we would not suggest until we have investigated further that the individual tunnels are an eligible use under these new rules, but there is no reason that the "multispan" tunnels will not be eligible as they will require full planning permission, as would the alternative commercial glasshouse build that we can also offer.

Heating of "multispan" tunnels is nothing particularly new and isn't a "get rich quick" scheme like some ideas that have been passed through the RHI in recent years and is a legitimate business opportunity. I've been involved in the supply and installation of horticultural heating systems for 28 years, and if I remember correctly, the first multispan tunnels I ever supplied a heating system for was back in 1998.

Hope this clarifies the scenario ?

@Ebtech Group have you managed to create a system for multispan tunnels yet and how do you surmise heat loads needed.

I’m interested to know whether you develop the heat emitter system and temperature control or are these flat pack singular for glass houses?

renewablejohn · Mar 23, 2018

akaPABLO01 said:
@Ebtech Group have you managed to create a system for multispan tunnels yet and how do you surmise heat loads needed.

I’m interested to know whether you develop the heat emitter system and temperature control or are these flat pack singular for glass houses?

Its gone very quiet. do I sniff salesman bluster.

akaPABLO01 · Mar 23, 2018

renewablejohn said:
Its gone very quiet. do I sniff salesman bluster.

I’m thinking data processed abroad sold here then profits sent abroad.

It’s not too difficult to assess surface area with heat required to BTU then to kW.

I’m just working gshp for glass house that’s going to need 5 acres of slinkies LMFAO

Heated Multispan Polytunnels?

Staff Member

Member

Member

New Member

Member

New Member

Member

New Member

Member

New Member

Member

New Member

New Member

Member

New Member

Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page