Upgraded 750a seed tubes

Simon Chiles · Feb 22, 2018

Clive said:
I agree the gutter probabaly still has the edge especialy as it can be weighted etc but if you bought a new drill and it came with the jd toothed closer do you think that possible slight edge is enough to justify throwing the jd ones away and spending on a set of gutlers ?

Jd need to up their game with this drill ASAP imo as new kids on the block are looking pretty good these days.

Better cracking of the sidewall and slot closing can give the edge in adverse conditions helping in situations where you might get heavy rain shortly after drilling and in high slug pressure situations. It wouldn’t take many acres of lost crop to pay for the Guttlers so personally I’d think they’re worth the extra cost.

There have been loads of small changes to the JD openers over the years, I think it’s testament to the original design that unless you’re a bit of nerd ( me? ) most people wouldn’t realise that they’d changed much. I agree that the new seed boot tubes and the ability to change down pressure are important developments. The new seed tab,whilst an improvement, won’t be much of an advantage. I’d like to see the new press wheel before I made judgement on them.

Whilst new drills are catching up they still lack some of the important features that give the JD the edge.

Clive · Feb 22, 2018

Simon Chiles said:
Better cracking of the sidewall and slot closing can give the edge in adverse conditions helping in situations where you might get heavy rain shortly after drilling and in high slug pressure situations. It wouldn’t take many acres of lost crop to pay for the Guttlers so personally I’d think they’re worth the extra cost.

There have been loads of small changes to the JD openers over the years, I think it’s testament to the original design that unless you’re a bit of nerd ( me? ) most people wouldn’t realise that they’d changed much. I agree that the new seed boot tubes and the ability to change down pressure are important developments. The new seed tab,whilst an improvement, won’t be much of an advantage. I’d like to see the new press wheel before I made judgement on them.

Whilst new drills are catching up they still lack some of the important features that give the JD the edge.

There are situations where a mud smith wheel would be better and never any situation it would be worse but not enough to justify the cost imo - so a similar discussion to gutler vs toothed JD in the future maybe

Have you seen a sly drill working yet ?

Simon Chiles · Feb 22, 2018

Clive said:
There are situations where a mud smith wheel would be better and never any situation it would be worse but not enough to justify the cost imo - so a similar discussion to gutler vs toothed JD in the future maybe

Have you seen a sly drill working yet ?

I’m not sure whether that’s a good comparison, IMO if it’s too wet to drill with the standard gauge wheel it’s too wet to drill. I’d buy either the Mudsmith’s or spoked JD gauge wheels because they were a better design for holding the bearing so wouldn’t actually offer any increase in drilling performance.

I haven’t seen a Sly drill working, I think the tyre that closes the slot, especially on my soil in the wet, would cap over too much for my liking.

York · Feb 23, 2018

Clive,

Sly design is pretty much in the direction of the Flexicoil design.
Wonder if Flexicoil does still make them.
Will be interesting to see the comparison.
JD has a history of beeing slow on adaption of imporvements & if changes it will do that under the opinion of: We know it the best.
On the other hand, the good of this JD attitude is that it leaves a good place for the after market "imporvers" which developed to be a own part of the improvement.
good to be able to improve even JD combines so that after changes it will have >20% more capacity & under wet conditions it will shine even more.
York-Th.

Alistair Nelson · Feb 23, 2018

The biggest issue that JD aren't addressing with the drill and where the opposition are getting a run on them isn't the coulter its frame design and development and grain and fert systems etc. Thats is down to the fact though that the coulter is developed, designed and manufactured for the US market where JD actually want to sell them and are only free issued to the European market for KV to incorporate into a 20 yr old + designed frame etc which hasn't seen any development or thought as really JD don't care if they sell them or not in Europe.

Simon Chiles · Feb 24, 2018

Alistair Nelson said:
Thats is down to the fact though that the coulter is developed, designed and manufactured for the US market where JD actually want to sell them and are only free issued to the European market for KV to incorporate into a 20 yr old + designed frame etc which hasn't seen any development or thought as really JD don't care if they sell them or not in Europe.

Most of this bit is inaccurate.

JD used to assemble the drills in the combine plant at Zweibrucken until they needed the space to manufacture telehandlers which is when they outsourced the job to Kv who make the hopper. The frame is made by a third party. At the moment drill sales are at the level of their maximum manufacture capacity. JD tried to buy Monosem who have much larger manufacturing site which would have enabled them to increase production and possibly have lead to changing hopper and frame design. However the monopolies and mergers commission quashed it as JD would have become by far the largest maize drill manufacturers in the world. The reality is that at the moment they’re stuck, short of building a new factory and imagine what that would cost. Even if JD had the capacity to make drills for everyone who wanted a direct drill you’d always have people who wanted something different so I don’t think that having a dedicated factory is a viable option.

Alistair Nelson · Feb 24, 2018

Don’t worry Simon I will always bow to your knowledge of these drills but apart from the final statement which was flippant and abit contraversal to get a reaction. most of what I said you have agreed with and then elaborated with reasons why. Yes they are selling as many as can produce / want to sell but look at the developments on the us frames etc that use the same Coulter’s and it is constantly on going like a mainstream drill manufacturer over here would be where as the the uk is driven by the likes of yourself developing the idea and retrofitting guttlers and having to take off and bin the originals if jd or even jd uk were truly interested they could easily do that mod couldn’t they?

After all the drill was withdrawn from the uk price list for abit and it was only through the efforts of the likes of yourself and certain jd dealers who who were privately importing them from Spain they were reintroduced as they were basically embarrassed into doing it.

It is a really good drill but as yourself and others have proven could be developed into a truly great drill.

Clive · Feb 24, 2018

Simon Chiles said:
I’m not sure whether that’s a good comparison, IMO if it’s too wet to drill with the standard gauge wheel it’s too wet to drill. I’d buy either the Mudsmith’s or spoked JD gauge wheels because they were a better design for holding the bearing so wouldn’t actually offer any increase in drilling performance.

I haven’t seen a Sly drill working, I think the tyre that closes the slot, especially on my soil in the wet, would cap over too much for my liking.

I used to think similar about the mud smith and still agree if the entire field needs them to be able to run the drill it’s probabaly too wet

But in a situation where you have a few wet spots they would definitely be advantageous to avoid a long blockage or having to wait to dry when 95% of the field is dry enough

Clive · Feb 24, 2018

Alistair Nelson said:
Don’t worry Simon I will always bow to your knowledge of these drills but apart from the final statement which was flippant and abit contraversal to get a reaction. most of what I said you have agreed with and then elaborated with reasons why. Yes they are selling as many as can produce / want to sell but look at the developments on the us frames etc that use the same Coulter’s and it is constantly on going like a mainstream drill manufacturer over here would be where as the the uk is driven by the likes of yourself developing the idea and retrofitting guttlers and having to take off and bin the originals if jd or even jd uk were truly interested they could easily do that mod couldn’t they?

After all the drill was withdrawn from the uk price list for abit and it was only through the efforts of the likes of yourself and certain jd dealers who who were privately importing them from Spain they were reintroduced as they were basically embarrassed into doing it.

It is a really good drill but as yourself and others have proven could be developed into a truly great drill.

I think there will be a new drill with fert option before too long - over a year ago now a team of Germans came over and spent a day with tape measures on our drill with particular interest to the fert system and tubes - I quickly registered the fert tube design !!

It was notable that of jds entire range at agritechnica the 750a appeared to be missing - I think at the very least it needs a new hopper to match other kit in the range (plastic tanks) and making a usable size while they are at it

It’s a great drill, still the best coulter on the market but frame, hopper and lack of a fert option do without doubt let it down

Have fitted row cleaners ready for spring work - they look great and think they will be a big step forward. JD really need to look at offering all this stuff for those that want it

Alistair Nelson · Feb 24, 2018

That’s what I was trying to get at look at the money they have spent developing the sprayers in the same period it doesn’t compare does it.

Imagine what Micheal and Philip Horsch or Krista stark and family would have done with a product like that!!

Clive · Feb 24, 2018

Alistair Nelson said:
That’s what I was trying to get at look at the money they have spent developing the sprayers in the same period it doesn’t compare does it.

Imagine what Micheal and Philip Horsch or Krista stark and family would have done with a product like that!!

Do Jd REALLY want to sell a product that needs smaller tractors in a system than uses less tractors doing less hours though ?

They are a tractor manufacture after all

Simon Chiles · Feb 24, 2018

Alistair Nelson said:
After all the drill was withdrawn from the uk price list for abit and it was only through the efforts of the likes of yourself and certain jd dealers who who were privately importing them from Spain they were reintroduced as they were basically embarrassed into doing it.

It is a really good drill but as yourself and others have proven could be developed into a truly great drill.

The drill was withdrawn from the European market about 17 years ago when they ceased production at the Zweibrucken plant. JD UK took me to Agritechnica to meet with the top men at JD and I persuaded them to carry on with production. At the time interest in direct drilling was very limited in Europe but I told them that I thought it was going to increase dramatically ( it didn’t happen as fast as I thought it might ) and that I thought that they had the best opener on the market. I told them that it was ridiculous to pull out of an expanding market if they were already the market leaders and that if they lost that position it would be very difficult to regain it. Fortunately they listened and switched the production to Kv.

As for not fitting the Guttlers as standard it probably all comes down to cost. I expect the original JD closing wheel costs pence to produce and that it would cost far more to remove it than to supply the drill with it on. As everyone ( or at least nearly everyone) swapped to the Guttlers anyway it saved them the cost of fitting them. As it didn’t limit drill sales, fitting them as standard was hardly an economic solution for JD.

Sometimes I think that making a few modifications to the drill adds to the interest and possibly helps concentrate the mind on what you want to achieve when switching to a new system. It may even possibly have meant that more people have made a success of dd than maybe they would have done had they just bought a drill off the shelf.

Simon Chiles · Feb 24, 2018

Alistair Nelson said:
That’s what I was trying to get at look at the money they have spent developing the sprayers in the same period it doesn’t compare does it.

Imagine what Micheal and Philip Horsch or Krista stark and family would have done with a product like that!!

If you can work out the logic in JD global strategy then you’re a better man than me. Look at all the money they spent on developing the telehandlers, they had a top notch product in a few years and about 25% of the market in France and the UK only to go and pull the plug on it.
Complete madness IMO especially as telehandler sales in the US have since shown a dramatic increase.

Alistair Nelson · Feb 24, 2018

I totally agree the logic is interesting at best!!!

If you saw that carbon fibre boom on that sprayer on Wednesday that’s a prime example of Woolley logic. Good idea on the material but shocking folding mechanism and not sure on price?

Simon Chiles · Feb 24, 2018

Alistair Nelson said:
I totally agree the logic is interesting at best!!!

If you saw that carbon fibre boom on that sprayer on Wednesday that’s a prime example of Woolley logic. Good idea on the material but shocking folding mechanism and not sure on price?

I’d like to know a bit more about the construction of that boom. My son ( the one that works on aircraft ) reckons that it could be very interesting if you folded it up ( especially the way it folds ) in a thunderstorm.

Clive · Feb 24, 2018

Simon Chiles said:
I’d like to know a bit more about the construction of that boom. My son ( the one that works on aircraft ) reckons that it could be very interesting if you folded it up ( especially the way it folds ) in a thunderstorm.

I can't see how its even legal the way it fold, fatal accident waiting to happen IMO

SilliamWhale · Feb 24, 2018

Alistair Nelson said:
That’s what I was trying to get at look at the money they have spent developing the sprayers in the same period it doesn’t compare does it.

Imagine what Micheal and Philip Horsch or Krista stark and family would have done with a product like that!!

But Michael Horsch has just copied the 750 design...

Clive · Feb 24, 2018

SilliamWhale said:
But Michael Horsch has just copied the 750 design...

and put a proper sized hoper on it etc and made what should have been a better machine than the JD

shame was he stuck the wrong size discs on it !

SilliamWhale · Feb 24, 2018

Simon Chiles said:
T

Sometimes I think that making a few modifications to the drill adds to the interest and possibly helps concentrate the mind on what you want to achieve when switching to a new system. It may even possibly have meant that more people have made a success of dd than maybe they would have done had they just bought a drill off the shelf.

Agree with you there. The aftermarket thing is quite a good innovation as often they become farmer innovations

Persa · Feb 24, 2018

Alistair Nelson said:
That’s what I was trying to get at look at the money they have spent developing the sprayers in the same period it doesn’t compare does it.

Imagine what Micheal and Philip Horsch or Krista stark and family would have done with a product like that!!

But the Stark family at Väderstad have stopped the sale on their SeedHawk for the european market too, and says that it is because of problems in their canadian factory. This at a time when the machine gets bigger and bigger interest here in Sweden...
It seems to me that the big machinery companies dont want to have direct drills on the european market at all.

Upgraded 750a seed tubes

DD Moderator

Staff Member

DD Moderator

Member

Member

DD Moderator

Member

Staff Member

Staff Member

Member

Staff Member

DD Moderator

DD Moderator

Member

DD Moderator

Staff Member

Member

Staff Member

Member

Member

0 %

Up to 25%

25-50%

50-75%

75-100%

100% I’ve had enough of farming!

Share this page