On that evidence Harry he was clearly a genius but he wasn`t the last one. Pele was a genius but was he better than Messi or Ronaldo. Same sport but a different age and different game. Nobody will ever know.
TS90 rear furrow width adjuster
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Ray996
Member
- Location
- North Scotland
In my opinion Ransome's still make the most natural furrow at any match, kV might take the silver but make a furrow you would think shaped by a trowel and false looking.exception being hydrein board,match board to clinical and just spoils a match for me looking at recent work witnessed
Dealer
Member
- Location
- Shropshire
Yes Bob you are right, have not read it for a while
Page 32 (picture at the bottom).
Scn. Was made prior to 1976 so why is it not allowed in the classic class?
Scn3k. Available in1951.
Surely the natural order of things is that there is always somebody better. Despite the belief held by some of the greats that the standard is falling, many of us have seen a vast improvement in standards. This is due to a number of reasons - like it or not social media and improved communication playing a big part in the proceedings. Ploughing is no longer the black art that it was. Which ever way round things stand currently, there are a good number of very capable ploughmen around at the moment. Age seems little or no barrier.
Two names spring readily to mind - capable in more than one discipline.
Richard Ingram. Vintage Mounted / Ferguson.
Ray Alderson. Trailing Ploughs / Classic.
Different age different game is a far more pertinent statement than most of you will ever realise. At the time John Gwilliam made his mark agriculture was a whole different ball game. At that time the heaviest thing ever to cross a field was probably the tractor. Compaction was the farmers enemy with people buying Fergies cos’ E27N’s were too heavy. Some people used even to make horses walk on top to save compacting the furrow bottom. Fields were far more uniform and level. JG was before the advent of massive harvesting machinery for corn, beet, beet, potatoes and peas. JG never lost sweat over massively wide and deep tramlines. Gone are the long rotations between root crops which gave land time to recover. Look at what crops are carried home in - tractor and trailer combinations in excess of 30 tonnes. Gone are most of the days when it was too wet to travel. Land was allowed to rest. Land was full of - dare we say it now - worms. Winters were longer and colder. In general the soil was in tip top condition. No min till for JG to hassle with. Plenty of twitch though (wicks, wickens or whatever you choose to call them) holding things together in a world unwise to gramoxne.
There now. That’s my argument and I’m sticking to it. It is also the very reason that we need weight. Compaction. Tramlines of varying widths spaced at even intervals throughout the plot, interspersed with combine and trailer wheelings. Gone are the days of being able to see the silvered lines of wheelings in ripening barley. With it though has come a generation of ploughmen shown to be more than capable of adapting antiquated tackle to change. Long may it continue. Which somewhat brings us back to the original topic in question of this thread.....
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You are right about SCN and being disallowed as it has been discussed on here countless times. If you feel you need an answer phone the SOP.
The original SCN was a bar point and I don`t think the full share version came out until; about 1961 but I still think it is banned from classic for some reason.
So, a good modern man will always best a good veteran? Jimmy Elliot proves this to be wrong.
In JGs day, every field was a match plot, it was nothing to find the local farmers leaning on the gate watching you at work, and voicing their opinions in the pub later!This lead to a much higher overall standard, no get it done and get in the bar in the YFC class then.Work done commercially these days would have lead to the man seeking a new job then.
The top plots looked as if a life sized model had been made of perfect work, and rolled out on the field.
This was the scene in Hereford and to a certain degree Somerset in the 70s.I cant comment on other areas as I didnt travel as much in those days.
Regarding compaction the hardest stubble land I found last year was some min till in Hampshire! There were no tramlines, just wheel marks, nothing could make a rut in that!
In JGs day, every field was a match plot, it was nothing to find the local farmers leaning on the gate watching you at work, and voicing their opinions in the pub later!This lead to a much higher overall standard, no get it done and get in the bar in the YFC class then.Work done commercially these days would have lead to the man seeking a new job then.
The top plots looked as if a life sized model had been made of perfect work, and rolled out on the field.
This was the scene in Hereford and to a certain degree Somerset in the 70s.I cant comment on other areas as I didnt travel as much in those days.
Regarding compaction the hardest stubble land I found last year was some min till in Hampshire! There were no tramlines, just wheel marks, nothing could make a rut in that!
You are confusing average commercial standards with match ploughing. Man's basic ability in any field has remained the same over many generations but the way this basic ability has been enhanced by training and education together with progressive learning from previous generations has improved. Whether this has always been applied is sometimes questionable of course, particularly when economics conflict with visual appeal. Match ploughing evolved from pride in workmanship on farms as you describe but I think that thread is now insignificant. Match ploughing is match ploughing and commercial ploughing is commercial with very different aims and constraints.
Indeed so, but trials carried out at one world match found a significant improvement in weed control the higher up the awards they went. If a measurable difference is to be found at that level, how bad is the control in commercial work? And by improving the standard, how many gallons of chemical would remain in the tanks, instead of in the ground and rivers.
I totally agree and perhaps the tide is turning and skills will return to commercial tillage. I welcome this from an ecological viewpoint but as long as the cost of diesel and wear a tear involved in ploughing outweighs the cost of chemicals to support poor farming practice change will be mighty slow. The most influential factor I feel has been the advent of power harrows and big tractors. These can scrub out a multitude of ploughing blunders whereas the man with horses and zizag harrows would never stand a chance. I have seen world style finishes that would challenge a man on a Fergie and even endanger his life.
Quite so. Dont be too hard on us for our finishes, they do look much deeper than they are, you have 12 or 13 " furrows standing beside the finish. I had a discussion with a man at a southern match about this, he was measuring the finish depth! From a pole laid across the top, and coming up with a depth of 14 "! When I pointed out that the true depth was the show furrow and moulder added together he stormed off in a huff! Checked my way his 14" reduced to 7", 3" show furrow +4" moulder.
The deepest finish`s I have ever seen were at a match in Hereford, in the fergy class, 10/12" deep!
The deepest finish`s I have ever seen were at a match in Hereford, in the fergy class, 10/12" deep!
Fergie Ploughman
Member
- Location
- Cheshire, UK
When anyone ever asks me how it's judged I often say it's the commercial aspects that remain important today;
Straightness - more efficient to pull in a straight line, less diesel
Seedbed- obvious reasons, to allow and promote seed growth
Burying trash - so you don't get regrow to of weed which steels nutrients
Firmness - because you don't want holes and need a nice even surface to till and drill.
Ins/out - net so you don't plough up trash when doing the headlands
Uniformity - as previous, nice even furrows/surface for tilling/drilling
Start - level, clean, for the above various reasons
Finish - nice and shallow and with available soil to pull back in
The last couple have since been obsoleted by reversible ploughs, but all remain important today as they were 50+ years ago....have times really changed??
Straightness - more efficient to pull in a straight line, less diesel
Seedbed- obvious reasons, to allow and promote seed growth
Burying trash - so you don't get regrow to of weed which steels nutrients
Firmness - because you don't want holes and need a nice even surface to till and drill.
Ins/out - net so you don't plough up trash when doing the headlands
Uniformity - as previous, nice even furrows/surface for tilling/drilling
Start - level, clean, for the above various reasons
Finish - nice and shallow and with available soil to pull back in
The last couple have since been obsoleted by reversible ploughs, but all remain important today as they were 50+ years ago....have times really changed??
In many less words, match ploughing is "Ploughing done properly"!
- Location
- Acton Scott, South Shropshire
My KV rev match plough had so much play in the turnover bearing that it had about 2" of movement at the top link. I was always too afraid to sort it in case it altered the way it ploughed