what has the NFU ever done for us?

The Ruminant

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Hertfordshire
The reconciliation is in the paragraphs that proceed it - ie I don’t agree with policy and action but had no ability have a say in that

I have little doubt that they will fail if they don’t change, so I hope they don’t fail and do change instead
I’ll caveat what I’m about to say next by first of all stating that I have real respect for you and for what you’ve achieved. You came along to the Neal Kinsey conference I organised back in 2013 and, whilst the rest of us were slowly coming to the conclusion that the ‘guru’ had too many anecdotes and not enough hard science you were sitting in the conference busying yourself setting up this place - TFF! Fair play to you, for this and all the other things you’ve achieved in life.

Caveats now out of the way, I’d also say I don’t believe you have “no ability to have a say in that”.

Why not? Why do you have more faith in Gove and his flunkeys listening to you - the owner of the most powerful agricultural forum in the uk - than you do the NFU? Why were you prepared to invest time and money taking yourself to Whitehall to speak to the Environment Secretary (your quote from another thread: “I was sat in a room in Westminster this week having been invited by Micheal Gove to talk conservation ag and communication with farmers with a team of policy makers”) but reckon you have no ability to have a say in the way the NFU is run.

If you - the ‘Rupert Murdoch of the UK Agricultural Social Media world’ - can not get an audience with the new leaders of the NFU then I’m Arthur Scargill. (I’m not, by the way...) :)
 
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Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
worse still - acknowledges that they do many good things for the industry (“I certainly wouldn't want no NFU”) but either don’t get involved in driving change in the NFU; or are happy to reap the benefits from the organisation without paying a penny to the NFU (to paraphrase, “I certainly wouldn't want a world with no NFU but I’m not going to pay for it myself, you other suckers can do that for me....”)
On another thread I was told by @An Gof that what the NFU did was no concern to non members

I am an NFU member by the way but to say that what the NFU do and who their leader is and therefore which direction NFU policy will take is no concern to non members is just rubbish, unless they do nothing at all
can't have it both ways
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I’ll caveat what I’m about to say next by first of all stating that I have real respect for you and for what you’ve achieved. You came among to the Neal Kinsey conference I organised back in 2013 and, whilst the rest of us were slowly coming to the conclusion that the ‘guru’ had too many anecdotes and not enough hard science you were sitting in the conference busying yourself setting up this place - TFF! Fair play to you, for this and all the other things you’ve achieved in life.

Caveats now out of the way, I’d also say I don’t believe you have “no ability to have a say in that”.

Why not? Why do you have more faith in Gove and his flunkeys listening to you - the owner of the most powerful agricultural forum in the uk - than you do the NFU? Why were you prepared to invest time and money taking yourself to Whitehall to speak to the Environment Secretary (your quote from another thread: “I was sat in a room in Westminster this week having been invited by Micheal Gove to talk conservation ag and communication with farmers with a team of policy makers”) but reckon you have no ability to have a say in the way the NFU is run.

If you - the ‘Rupert Murdoch of the UK Agricultural Social Media world’ - can not get an audience with the new leaders of the NFU then I’m Arthur Scargill. (I’m not, by the way...) :)

I wasn’t in Whitehall to ask anyone to listen to me and certainly wasn’t claiming to represent anyone. I was there invited as a farmer who has some conservation ag experience that they wanted to hear about and owner of a forum that they can see might just be a useful way to communicate with farmers, nothing more, I’m certainly not trying to influence anything.

Re your last paragraph, I have tried on numerous occasions over the last 5 years and openly offered to help where ever and however I can. All I’ve ever had in response is to be told to go to committee meetings, get myself elected etc and change from within etc - something I simply lack time or inclination for
 

S J H

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
I wasn’t in Whitehall to ask anyone to listen to me and certainly wasn’t claiming to represent anyone. I was there invited as a farmer who has some conservation ag experience that they wanted to hear about and owner of a forum that they can see might just be a useful way to communicate with farmers, nothing more, I’m certainly not trying to influence anything.

Re your last paragraph, I have tried on numerous occasions over the last 5 years and openly offered to help where ever and however I can. All I’ve ever had in response is to be told to go to committee meetings, get myself elected etc and change from within etc - something I simply lack time or inclination for

If you're not that bothered about trying to change things then @Clive, do you mind not constantly dragging it down?

If everyone had your attitude, the nfu, which you have said you would not want to be without, would not exist.
 

An Gof

Member
Location
Cornwall
On another thread I was told by @An Gof that what the NFU did was no concern to non members

I am an NFU member by the way but to say that what the NFU do and who their leader is and therefore which direction NFU policy will take is no concern to non members is just rubbish, unless they do nothing at all
can't have it both ways

Is this the post you are referring to?

Are you a NFU member @Tamar ?
If not, what are you complaining about as it doesn’t concern you.
If you are then I’m sure your relevant County Adviser would be pleased to spend some time with you explaining the situation.

If so you will clearly see that it was a post in reply to Tamar.
I did NOT tell YOU that what what the NFU did is of no concern to non members. The post was in reply to the tiresome attitude of some on here who continually complain about the NFU when THEY are NOT members of it.
If you don't belong to an organisation that is a membership organisation what gives you a right to determine how it conducts its business?

As an NFU member @Henarar you do have a right to express your opinion and comment on NFU matters. I suggest you regularly attend your group and county meetings to make sure that your views are heard, debated and, if appropriate, acted upon.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
If you're not that bothered about trying to change things then @Clive, do you mind not constantly dragging it down?

If everyone had your attitude, the nfu, which you have said you would not want to be without, would not exist.

I’ve said before I’m entitled to my opinion as the next man. I’m sure it would suit the NFU better if it’s critics were silent, TFF provides open right of reply for all those farmers that don’t have time or inclanation for committee or office. I believe it’s becone a decent barometer of farmer sentiment and opinion.

But I also accept the NFU is what it is and isn’t about to change any time soon so it really is a bit of a pointless waste of time and energy discussing it.

I will exit the thread at that
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
I’ve said before I’m entitled to my opinion as the next man. I’m sure it would suit the NFU better if it’s critics were silent, TFF provides open right of reply for all those farmers that don’t have time or inclanation for committee or office. I believe it’s becone a decent barometer of farmer sentiment and opinion.
Unless of course the management don't like what you say then you get a warning.
But I also accept the NFU is what it is and isn’t about to change any time soon so it really is a bit of a pointless waste of time and energy discussing it.
It changes every year different office holders different faces. Biggest change in years this year with first woman president in case you missed it.
I will exit the thread at that
Its a good job we all don't quit if we don't get exactly what we want. Some of us keep pushing for change.
I know I am including involving other organisation, NSA , YFC to name two with discussions at branch level.
How do I connect with local members? I publish my contact details and be open to all views.
TFF is a good sounding board but only a small part of British agriculture .
 
Location
Devon
What changes have the NFU made within the union in the last 10 years to make it easier for grass roots farmers to have their voice heard/ and how the union is run to give grass roots members a better say on how the NFU is run??

Sounds like more and more NFU members are getting fed up with the way the NFU is being run with only a handful of people having all the say in this area.

Very poor day at the office when NFU members get so fed up that they quit the NFU and the NFU doesn't seem to care less if they quit or not.

Has to be said that whilst the NFU has some great staff working for them, the attitude of some current/ previous office holders at branch/ regional level is a massive part of the problem as they wont hear/ accept a bad word being said about the NFU and how it is being run, for change to happen these people need to be much more open in engaging with members and also with ex members to understand why they are quitting and what can be done to reverse that and both get them to re-join and stop other people leaving.

Just because someone is an ex member it doesn't mean that they don't want a strong NFU or don't want to be part of the NFU but more the fact they have been badly let down/ ignored whenever they try to raise concerns about the way the NFU is being run and what needs to change, especially when you get the feedback that all the staff/ office holders within the NFU think they are doing a great job and change isn't needed.

Also many farmers are leaving because it has become very clear the last 3/4 years that unless you are a very large farmer the NFU wont help you when you seek the union's help when it comes to things like TB/ BPS etc et, this MUST change and all farmers be they farming 10 acres or 10,000 acres should be treated equally in regards getting help from the NFU.
 

tom

Member
Location
Lancs/Cheshire
... modern communication technology and social media would enable an expanded membership to have direct, even real time, feedback on any number of issues ...

... good idea. It was possible to interact with some of the sessions at conference via an app on your phone (which was a bit annoying for me as my phone is not smart enough to cope and as I was trying to ask questions the old-fashioned way I kept losing out to people who weren't even in the room). However I do interact with NFU Council meetings via Twitter using #nfucouncil.

I can't see why the meeting which elected the President could not have been streamed live or at least moved to a bigger room at ICC with a viewing gallery. I can see valid reasons not to stream every Council meeting live but they could be recorded and an edited version of the topical debates broadcast later.

For example there was an interesting one last year in deciding NFU's response to Brexit negotiations, basically what the President was allowed to say about membership of a customs union or single market. It was a good debate with both sides fairly put but what may come as a surprise to many is the way Meurig was careful not to express his own personal view for fear of swaying the democratic process.

The role of the President (or at least the way Meurig did the job) was somewhat akin to the Speaker of the House of Commons or the Queen; one day Her Majesty may be succeeded by Charles who has strong views on organic farming but this will not, and should not, change government policy.

Maybe more significant than the change of President is the fact that last week about 20 long-serving Council members stood down with 20 others taking their place doubtless bringing new thinking with them.

It is not that long ago when I regularly used to criticise the NFU on the forums which preceded this until challenged by Guy Smith to give it a go; it took about two years to go from cynic to Council and if anyone can be tempted to follow the same path I'm happy to help.

For many that may not be a realistic option but I would encourage all members to let their feelings be known to their Council delegates pre-Council (the agendas are always on line here) and maybe follow up with a phone call or email a week later to ask how they voted and why.
 

Dolomite

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South Yorkshire
What changes have the NFU made within the union in the last 10 years to make it easier for grass roots farmers to have their voice heard/ and how the union is run to give grass roots members a better say on how the NFU is run??

Sounds like more and more NFU members are getting fed up with the way the NFU is being run with only a handful of people having all the say in this area.

Very poor day at the office when NFU members get so fed up that they quit the NFU and the NFU doesn't seem to care less if they quit or not. [/QUOT
Regarding all your post. Here here. Just how we felt. If you aren't in Oxfordshire, Cambridgeshire, the Home Counties or Cotswolds. It doesn't seem like you matter and less so if you don't farm 3000 or more.
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
Also many farmers are leaving because it has become very clear the last 3/4 years that unless you are a very large farmer the NFU wont help you when you seek the union's help when it comes to things like TB/ BPS etc et, this MUST change and all farmers be they farming 10 acres or 10,000 acres should be treated equally in regards getting help from the NFU.

Well if everyone gets treated the same, should they all pay the same then? The 10k acre man pays the same sub as the 10 acre man and gets exactly the same service? To be frank one suspects the 10k acre man's sub would currently be paying for the 10 acre man to get some help and advice, as the 10 acre sub would never cover the cost of it.

The trouble with the NFU is its all things to all men, and can't really please any of them. It is biased to larger farms, as they pay the wages. But it can't go to a flat rate sub because the flat rate would drive the smaller farms away, as it would have to be higher than what they pay now. It also has to reconcile the differing needs of a farmer halfway up Snowdon and an agri-businessman of the likes of James Dyson. There's the tenant/owner occupier divide, and regional differences in farming too.

There's no way the interests of all that lot can combined into one set of policies from one organisation.
 
Location
Devon
Well if everyone gets treated the same, should they all pay the same then? The 10k acre man pays the same sub as the 10 acre man and gets exactly the same service? To be frank one suspects the 10k acre man's sub would currently be paying for the 10 acre man to get some help and advice, as the 10 acre sub would never cover the cost of it.

The trouble with the NFU is its all things to all men, and can't really please any of them. It is biased to larger farms, as they pay the wages. But it can't go to a flat rate sub because the flat rate would drive the smaller farms away, as it would have to be higher than what they pay now. It also has to reconcile the differing needs of a farmer halfway up Snowdon and an agri-businessman of the likes of James Dyson. There's the tenant/owner occupier divide, and regional differences in farming too.

There's no way the interests of all that lot can combined into one set of policies from one organisation.

Why should a small farmers sub be thrown into the same pot as the large farmers subs only to be used to help large farmers when they have a problem on the same issue and not the small farmer?? ( ie BPS for example where unless you had a very large claim the NFU would not help you ).

A large farmer could have a new problem every year for 5 years straight that the NFU needs to spend a lot of time helping them on for those 5 years, the small farmer might only 1 problem they need help with in say 30 years! why is the large farmer more deserving of help than the small farmer??

On the TB, they had a so called expert that didn't know what he was talking about, expected the members to do the job for him whilst he did sweet fa and when it was pointed out that is not what is meant to be happening and his job was to do research/ find info to help his members with etc etc he just put up the shutters and wouldn't do anything.

Yet go to many other organizations on the TB issue everyone will go out of their way to help you.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Unless of course the management don't like what you say then you get a warning.
.

For the record no one has ever been moderated on TFF for having an opinion (NFU or any other subject) that myself or anyone else involved in running the site doesn’t agree with.

Several people have been moderated over the years when other members have complained about behaviour, site rules have been broken or warnings re use of the site have been ignored etc yourself included
 

The Ruminant

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Hertfordshire
What changes have the NFU made within the union in the last 10 years to make it easier for grass roots farmers to have their voice heard/ and how the union is run to give grass roots members a better say on how the NFU is run??

Sounds like more and more NFU members are getting fed up with the way the NFU is being run with only a handful of people having all the say in this area.
I personally know two grass roots farmers who’ve decided they’d like to have a better say on how the NFU is run. They took matters into their own hands, same as we all could, and put themselves forward for office.

Well done @Guy Smith and Stuart Roberts. You’ve shown the grass roots farmers CAN reach the top and CAN have a better say on how the NFU is run.

It’s rather embarrassing when people claim otherwise, when you think about it...
 

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quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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